T Nation

Sheiko: GPP and Constantly Sore Hips

Hello T-Nation

As some of you are aware I’m currently running Sheiko(#31 to be exact) and this is the first time I’m doing the original deadlift programme included in the template(see log for details). I pull conventional and squat with a relatively narrow stance but my hips have gotten a severe shellacking that has made my squatting sessions hard on me despite getting 8+ hours of sleep and lots of food.

I was thinking of going back to #29 and working my way up again while at the same time doing some low intensity GPP to aid recovery.

Any criticisms/suggestions most welcome.

[quote]DmitryKlokovFan wrote:
Hello T-Nation

As some of you are aware I’m currently running Sheiko(#31 to be exact) and this is the first time I’m doing the original deadlift programme included in the template(see log for details). I pull conventional and squat with a relatively narrow stance but my hips have gotten a severe shellacking that has made my squatting sessions hard on me despite getting 8+ hours of sleep and lots of food.

I was thinking of going back to #29 and working my way up again while at the same time doing some low intensity GPP to aid recovery.

Any criticisms/suggestions most welcome.[/quote]

Sounds good to me. Im also doing #29, have been running it back to back for a couple months trying to get used to the volume, and doing some gpp. Most of my GPP is short duration higher intensity though, no real reason other than it is easier to fit in and there is something gratifying about a few ball busting heavy prowler pushes to finish off the training session.

Hey man, I’d love to help and i love sheiko.

what’s your warm up like? what are you doing to fix the problem right now?

What you need to do is take 2 weeks and take the percents down by 10 on squats and dead lifts, I know that’s the last thing you want to hear, but think about it this way: taking 2 weeks off now will most likely make you stronger 1 year from now… training through and getting injured will keep you at this level or regress you 1 year from now. If you think you’re advanced, you’re not, neither am I, neither is anyone else reading this… and that’s ok. Easy things still work, and will work for a long time.

I’ll give you a nice concrete example of what i’m talking about. My good friend Kade Weber started the sheiko programs at 15 years old, and basically did whatever his coach Willie Albert did. That was it, he just went in and did what Willie did, he just enjoyed the process.

Here’s Kade when we trained together and were around the same strength, i believe he’s 17-18 here.

I can distinctly remember this workout, Kades shoulder was bothering him after that so he took 2 weeks off to let it heal. I can remember having 2-4 things that were just killing me at the time, and thinking he was kind of soft. Kade didn’t train, because Kade didn’t enjoy training when it hurt, he enjoyed it when it was fun. In his own words, “If I liked chess, I’d play chess… but I like lifting weights, so that’s what I do.”

I needed to be strong, I’d do whatever it took to be strong, it didn’t matter to me. It got to the point where I hated training, but couldn’t stop for the guilt. Long story short, this is kade now at 23:

848 DEADLIFT

enjoy lifting man

[quote]Re.po wrote:

[quote]DmitryKlokovFan wrote:
Hello T-Nation

As some of you are aware I’m currently running Sheiko(#31 to be exact) and this is the first time I’m doing the original deadlift programme included in the template(see log for details). I pull conventional and squat with a relatively narrow stance but my hips have gotten a severe shellacking that has made my squatting sessions hard on me despite getting 8+ hours of sleep and lots of food.

I was thinking of going back to #29 and working my way up again while at the same time doing some low intensity GPP to aid recovery.

Any criticisms/suggestions most welcome.[/quote]

Sounds good to me. Im also doing #29, have been running it back to back for a couple months trying to get used to the volume, and doing some gpp. Most of my GPP is short duration higher intensity though, no real reason other than it is easier to fit in and there is something gratifying about a few ball busting heavy prowler pushes to finish off the training session.[/quote]

Interesting. I ran #29 and subsequent templates without any problems with the only difference was that I was doing a modified DL programme suggested by ChaseT(one who made the spreadsheet) and adding in lat/rear delt exercises.

I finish #31 next week and will go back to the starting point and work my way up again. I was also considering doing some pick up basketball or soccer with a group of friends on my “off” days, though not intense.

[quote]Mathew Bertrand wrote:
Hey man, I’d love to help and i love sheiko.

what’s your warm up like? what are you doing to fix the problem right now?

What you need to do is take 2 weeks and take the percents down by 10 on squats and dead lifts, I know that’s the last thing you want to hear, but think about it this way: taking 2 weeks off now will most likely make you stronger 1 year from now… training through and getting injured will keep you at this level or regress you 1 year from now. If you think you’re advanced, you’re not, neither am I, neither is anyone else reading this… and that’s ok. Easy things still work, and will work for a long time.

I’ll give you a nice concrete example of what i’m talking about. My good friend Kade Weber started the sheiko programs at 15 years old, and basically did whatever his coach Willie Albert did. That was it, he just went in and did what Willie did, he just enjoyed the process.

Here’s Kade when we trained together and were around the same strength, i believe he’s 17-18 here.

I can distinctly remember this workout, Kades shoulder was bothering him after that so he took 2 weeks off to let it heal. I can remember having 2-4 things that were just killing me at the time, and thinking he was kind of soft. Kade didn’t train, because Kade didn’t enjoy training when it hurt, he enjoyed it when it was fun. In his own words, “If I liked chess, I’d play chess… but I like lifting weights, so that’s what I do.”

I needed to be strong, I’d do whatever it took to be strong, it didn’t matter to me. It got to the point where I hated training, but couldn’t stop for the guilt. Long story short, this is kade now at 23:

848 DEADLIFT

enjoy lifting man[/quote]

I lift at Idolmaker which is a warehouse gym close to 2300 square feet. My warm ups depend on the weather: on non-rainy days I’ll warm up with the sled for five minutes followed by DeFranco’s Agile 8. If its raining I’ll use the battle ropes combined with some dynamic movements and then onto Agile 8. I do this within a 10-12 minute span.

I’m still confused as to the “deload” and percentage decrease you’re suggesting.

lol, i dunno, just deload man… take it down 10% or more, keep lifting, just don’t let it hurt… i think that’s what I meant to say

Matt: Your words could not have arrived at a better moment. Today I woke up feeling sore, nauseous and with a minor headache. Eating breakfast was a task in it of itself and today after polishing a sandwich from Subway I had to pull over onto the side of the highway to throw up and right now I’m feeling like complete uber-shit as I write this.

[quote]DmitryKlokovFan wrote:
Matt: Your words could not have arrived at a better moment. Today I woke up feeling sore, nauseous and with a minor headache. Eating breakfast was a task in it of itself and today after polishing a sandwich from Subway I had to pull over onto the side of the highway to throw up and right now I’m feeling like complete uber-shit as I write this.

[/quote]

might not be training…you might actually be sick! take some time off from training, just do basic warm up stuff and some.light “old man fitness” stuff. that will be better than taking time totally off the gym, but still doing something easy and recharging. hell, go swim or hike even. this is assuming youre nit actuslly getting ill…dont lift if youre that sick lol.

do something completely different.

[quote]DmitryKlokovFan wrote:
Matt: Your words could not have arrived at a better moment. Today I woke up feeling sore, nauseous and with a minor headache. Eating breakfast was a task in it of itself and today after polishing a sandwich from Subway I had to pull over onto the side of the highway to throw up and right now I’m feeling like complete uber-shit as I write this.

[/quote]

Like Aragon said, you sound sick man. I do not think that is the Sheiko doing this to you. Yeah If you feel like crap and do a bunch of voume you will feel worse, but I ran the shit out of Sheiko and cannot really say I ever felt that way.

Our whole squad ran Sheiko until recently and half of us still do run it. It beats you up if you are not eating/sleeping/doing mobility work but never to the point you are describing (imo). -also not the majority of peopl in our group total elite+ for their weight classes, so its not like we were not hitting the program hard.

When I did Sheiko I was foam rolling 3 x a day to keep from being stiff all the time. maybe that can help you some.

BTW are you planning on competing any time soon? You are in the 305 correct?

Which one is best Sheiko program for start?
And which one is “hardest?”

I have trained like conjugate style and Sheiko volume looks nice but intensity is lower. I think i should run one cycle.

I’m feeling fine as of right now. The culprit was the Cajun Jambulaya Pasta I had at Cheesecake Factory on Sunday. The shrimp and fish were probably undercooked and the cause of my puking the next day.

On the advice of Eric Talmant, I’m going to do the following

  1. Run three months of high volume(i.e. 30,31,40) followed by a period of low volume(i.e. 29,39,29), Its similar to the loading and unloading phase used by the Bulgarian weightlifters of Abadjiev.

  2. Clean up my diet. Since I started Sheiko in January, I’ve pretty taken a laissez faire attitude and eat anything in sight. I’m going to include more fish, chicken, fruits and vegetables while simultaneously cutting out sodas, simple carbs,etc. As a matter of fact Boris Sheiko himself espouses good nutritional habits in his writings and new book.

[quote]Jussi.U wrote:
Which one is best Sheiko program for start?
And which one is “hardest?”

I have trained like conjugate style and Sheiko volume looks nice but intensity is lower. I think i should run one cycle.[/quote]

The “hardest” Sheiko cycles would be the MSIC ones but I do not even think Talmant or Bates published any when their team translated a lot of Sheiko’s work. I have seen an MSIC one that had the lifter training 6xweek multiple times a day.

As for the ones published, there are CMS/MS cycles but too many people jump onto those that do not qualify as CMS/MS status and then complain later on why the program did not work.

Kloklov just posted two good cycle templates, ones that Talmant is a fan of. The biggest flaw in people trainin Sheiko style is usually their lack of discipline technique wise and failure to keep their GPP in check.

Okay,it sounds good. I test my max later on this week and start doing 31 on next week.
What about percentages,do you use yor ax or 90 % of it ?

Also i have cheched some Sheikos programs and there is box and deficit deadlift. How big boxes and deficits you guys use? I think 4"box and 2-3"deficit

With Sheiko you should be able to use 100% of your max because the majority of work is done with the 75-80/85% range. The only reason you would have to use less would be if your GPP was so sub par that you literally could not finish the workouts. (which regardless will be tiring, especially if you do them correctly, meaning walked out to depth, every bench rep paused, and every DL rep fully locked out and reset in b/w reps.)

As for the box, it should be to your legal squat depth. Sheiko is huge for hammering training like you compete, as you will notice with his box squats/pulls ect you do not go supermaximal like people normally do. For box height pick one that allows you to get true depth (hip crease bellow knee) and squat to it. Deficits are usually done off a thick 45 or 100lb plate, 3-4"

Some nice info,thank you curls4girls! Now im ready to start it (have to test my maxes before but i start next week…)I have used last year conjugate style of training,so volume will be much bigger but intensity will degrease.
I got some nice information from you guys and keep you posted. My GPP is pretty good, i coe back home at army like 1,5months ago.

Ohh…well one more question about accessory movements. I train on my garace so i dont have machines like leg presses etc i have to modify some accessory movements, and i would like add some curls for bicep help too.

Btw.How long you guys use sheiko and when you test new maxes/ use some type of peaking program.

[quote]Curls4Girls wrote:
With Sheiko you should be able to use 100% of your max because the majority of work is done with the 75-80/85% range. The only reason you would have to use less would be if your GPP was so sub par that you literally could not finish the workouts. (which regardless will be tiring, especially if you do them correctly, meaning walked out to depth, every bench rep paused, and every DL rep fully locked out and reset in b/w reps.)

As for the box, it should be to your legal squat depth. Sheiko is huge for hammering training like you compete, as you will notice with his box squats/pulls ect you do not go supermaximal like people normally do. For box height pick one that allows you to get true depth (hip crease bellow knee) and squat to it. Deficits are usually done off a thick 45 or 100lb plate, 3-4"[/quote]

The supplemental exercises listed in Sheiko’s first book are to be used if you’re a beginner or rated(advanced) lifter(CMS/MS/MSIC). I’m currently reading the original Sheiko in Russian(not the clusterfuck translation floating around on EFS and the WWW). He advocates the box squats for novies to teach them how to sit back and use hip drive on the way up. For more advanced lifters its used as a technique reinforcement tool, mostly for his single ply lifters.

However do what you know will have a carryover to the main lift. For example I’m doing deficit pulls in place of the deadlift to knees since I pull conventional and weak off the floor. Also instead of rack pulls, I use reverse band(green/average) deadlifts.

Its recommended you run the templates the way they are written for the first few months to get a feel of the volume and develop an idea as to what you need to work on.

[quote]Curls4Girls wrote:

[quote]DmitryKlokovFan wrote:
Matt: Your words could not have arrived at a better moment. Today I woke up feeling sore, nauseous and with a minor headache. Eating breakfast was a task in it of itself and today after polishing a sandwich from Subway I had to pull over onto the side of the highway to throw up and right now I’m feeling like complete uber-shit as I write this.

[/quote]

Like Aragon said, you sound sick man. I do not think that is the Sheiko doing this to you. Yeah If you feel like crap and do a bunch of voume you will feel worse, but I ran the shit out of Sheiko and cannot really say I ever felt that way.

Our whole squad ran Sheiko until recently and half of us still do run it. It beats you up if you are not eating/sleeping/doing mobility work but never to the point you are describing (imo). -also not the majority of peopl in our group total elite+ for their weight classes, so its not like we were not hitting the program hard.

When I did Sheiko I was foam rolling 3 x a day to keep from being stiff all the time. maybe that can help you some.

BTW are you planning on competing any time soon? You are in the 305 correct?[/quote]

Yes I’m in the 305 and want to compete whenever the opportunity presents itself.

[quote]Jussi.U wrote:

Also i have cheched some Sheikos programs and there is box and deficit deadlift. How big boxes and deficits you guys use? I think 4"box and 2-3"deficit[/quote]

Boris gave a seminar last Friday in Hobart, the deficit deads looked about 2-3 ", from the photos, lower but not too low to change form, did not see the boxes, but think they were above knee, using less than max so again think form