T Nation

Sheiko for Weightlifting

I did a round of Sheiko 29 for kicks a few months ago, and oh my, I had some brilliant strength gains. I felt faster, stronger.

I have gone back to Olympic lifting after a break, and I am finding that although concentrating on my front squat has risen it’s numbers, every other lift has gone down (relative to my sheiko phase).

When I did my sheiko phase my front-squat pretty much stalled until the last week when it rose 5kg, so that was fine.

I am thinking, as a weightlifter, could I use a sheiko squat/deadlift format for my weightlifting, replacing deadlift with pull variant?

I am just so disappointed with my progress compared to sheiko, I am drawn back to it.

My olympic lifting coach likes straight sets, so at the moment, most days I am doing:
a straight set of squats
snatch technical
c&j technical
pull
accessories

If I progressed best off sheiko, couldn’t I be doing:

sheiko high bar squats
snatch technical var
c&j technical var
skeiko front squats
accessories

and then

sheiko pull
snatch technical var
c&j technical var
skeiko pull
accessories

What do you think, T-Nation Weightlifters? Good/Bad idea?

Why not ask Coach? He would know you best since you’re his athlete and he knows your strength/weaknesses

[quote]Invictica wrote:
Why not ask Coach? He would know you best since you’re his athlete and he knows your strength/weaknesses[/quote]

Forevernade, listen to Invictica. He’s a genius.

Sheiko is a relatively high volume plan, and I would assume such high volume on what are essentially assistance lifts would interfere with your work on the C&J and snatch.

I don’t know a ton about olympic lifting, so I could be wrong, but…

[quote]ctschneider wrote:
Sheiko is a relatively high volume, and I would assume such high volume on what are essentially assistance lifts would interfere with your work on the C&J and snatch.

I could be wrong but…[/quote]

On the flip side, intensity is ridiculously low to the point where It just ticks me off that there are actually people who are stupid enough to follow it!

(No offense to Eric Talmant and to all people who uses the system. I’m just a no good wanna be Pyrros Dimas who’s far more ignorant than any one else. My opinions don’t matter. Yours do.)

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:

On the flip side, intensity is ridiculously low to the point where It just ticks me off that there are actually people who are stupid enough to follow it!

[/quote]

Yeah, I’m still trying to figure out how a program that never has you go above 85% gives any strength gains at all. It doesn’t seem like that kind of program would be well suited for Oly lifting - even if it’s only used to train back & front squats.

Anyway, when I tried it (for two months), the strength gains weren’t exactly worth writing home about, so maybe I’m biased. I mean, it worked, just not as well as I expected it to.

[quote]ctschneider wrote:
TYPE2B wrote:

On the flip side, intensity is ridiculously low to the point where It just ticks me off that there are actually people who are stupid enough to follow it!

Yeah, I’m still trying to figure out how a program that never has you go above 85% gives any strength gains at all. It doesn’t seem like that kind of program would be well suited for Oly lifting - even if it’s only used to train back & front squats.

Anyway, when I tried it (for two months), the strength gains weren’t exactly worth writing home about, so maybe I’m biased. I mean, it worked, just not as well as I expected it to. [/quote]

Thanks for agreeing with me!

Strength training should be kept with atleast 80% intensity. Anything lower is either bodybuilding and/or dynamic effort training. (IN MY HUMBLE OPINION)

Strength training is any training that makes you stronger.

If it worked for the OP it worked.

To the OP, the volume is high enough that I’d be concerned about doing it with your current routine, at least the assistance lifts would need to go.

[quote]ctschneider wrote:
Sheiko is a relatively high volume plan, and I would assume such high volume on what are essentially assistance lifts would interfere with your work on the C&J and snatch.

I don’t know a ton about olympic lifting, so I could be wrong, but…[/quote]

I think that’s true. Unless you’re just starting out or using special ‘restoratives’ it will be difficult to simultaneously make significant strength gains and technique work. The most logical approach is to work on a strength cycle and put technique work on the back burner for the time being (stick with basics). Once you finish the cycle, get back to the more technical and assistance lifts to utilize the strength you just gained.

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
ctschneider wrote:
Sheiko is a relatively high volume, and I would assume such high volume on what are essentially assistance lifts would interfere with your work on the C&J and snatch.

I could be wrong but…

On the flip side, intensity is ridiculously low to the point where It just ticks me off that there are actually people who are stupid enough to follow it!

[/quote]

Tell that to Belyaev.

Seriously, do you actually just post the first thing that comes into your head without thinking it through?

I was skeptical as well about Sheiko, especially after reading about how ‘grueling and taxing’ it was from everyone who tried it… then i did #29 and #37 back to back and put 20 kg on my squat (150 to 170 @ 78 kg) and 10 (95 to 105) on my bench. Those are kilos, not lbs… and I’m pretty sure I put on at least 10 kg on my deadlift. The weird part was it wasn’t grueling at all after the first week, and on some heavier squat workouts the weight seemed to fly up (e.g. i finished the very last squat workout repping 150 kg, my starting max, easily).

I also agree with the OP that it’s hard not to dive into it right away again after experiencing what it does to your body… I still feel like superman (too bad all the benching has made me rehab my shoulders). Like invicta said, ask your coach first and see if it’d work; I’m apprehensive only because it’s specifically designed for powerlifting, which often requires grinding out reps, as opposed to explosive lifting.

“Sheiko” for weightlifting is called A Program of Multi-Year Training in Weightlifting. Sheiko is just a program adapted from weightlifting for powerlifting. Why make a copy of a copy when you can just use the original?

Also, how is 80-85% low intensity? Sheiko usually has, for the first (primary) lift for the day, sets around 80-85%, then when that lift is repeated, higher reps for 70-75%. Doing singles at over 90% on an assistance lift (read: a lift who’s 1RM is less than the main lift generally) a la Westside and training the main lifts at 60-80% for speed sounds like low intensity to me.

Try training Bulgarian weightlifter style on the powerlifts. Post it here so we can see. I’d love to be wrong, but I think your long term results will be less than satisfying, especially when compared to someone doing Sheiko over the same time frame.

My apologies, I found this thread from not long ago.

I will order A Program of Multi-Year Training in Weightlifting then.

And as for my coach… Althought he is a good technical trainer I dont think he is very good at designing programs. Considering my strength has gone backward since I have been training with him, it is not a good sign. He still thinks I am a stage 1 beginner, and is thus simply getting me to do his standard beginner’s program, which, although I am improving techinically, is not sufficient.

When I did my cycle of “Sheiko” I was not benching at all. I simply was using the squat/dead perimiters.

You will probably lose strength in the powerlifting sense because the movements are different (squats) or nonexistent (bench/deads). I’d say you should follow his beginner program, then afterward do maintenance on your powerlifts to keep your hard-earned strength. I believe if you maintain it you will be able to transfer it to the olympic lifts more effectively than simply starting again from scratch.

If you buy A Program then just follow it. You’ll soon learn that 80-85% is NOT low intensity. TYPE2B, try doing 6x3 with 85% of your max. Or 90% for 5. Twice. Not easy.

I was doing high bar Olympic squat in my sheiko phase.

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
On the flip side, intensity is ridiculously low to the point where It just ticks me off that there are actually people who are stupid enough to follow it![/quote]

You have much to learn about adaptation.

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
ctschneider wrote:
TYPE2B wrote:

On the flip side, intensity is ridiculously low to the point where It just ticks me off that there are actually people who are stupid enough to follow it!

Yeah, I’m still trying to figure out how a program that never has you go above 85% gives any strength gains at all. It doesn’t seem like that kind of program would be well suited for Oly lifting - even if it’s only used to train back & front squats.

Anyway, when I tried it (for two months), the strength gains weren’t exactly worth writing home about, so maybe I’m biased. I mean, it worked, just not as well as I expected it to.

Thanks for agreeing with me!

Strength training should be kept with atleast 80% intensity. Anything lower is either bodybuilding and/or dynamic effort training. (IN MY HUMBLE OPINION)[/quote]

You are really fucking annoying.

OP, how are you quantifying “strength loss”? It’s unclear what exactly you are losing strength in, and why that matters, particularly if you are a beginner with regards to technique.

Well my back squat has gone down from 125 5x5 to 105 5x5. My front squat has gone from 75 to 85 5x5, and my pull of the floor feels weak no matter what I do, considering I was Deading 160 for 1 at the end of my sheiko phase.
It feels bad getting weaker as your technique gets stronger no matter.

How have your classic lifts been going?

If you want to be an O-lifter, that’s really all that matters.

When I’m in a strength maintenance phase, I’ll front squat once per week and back squat twice at around 80-85% for 3 sets of doubles or triples. That’s really all you need, IMO.

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
(IN MY HUMBLE OPINION)[/quote]

There is nothing humble about you.