T Nation

Sheiko & Accessory Work

I apologize if this question has been asked, I searched but could not really find a thread on it. I am currently using Sheiko and really like it. I am using the program without changes in its true form, I dont really like changing a program. I know for me personally front squats are a weakness that needs to be addressed. The question is when to add them while doing Sheiko.

I could add front squats in at the end of the week or should I take time between programs to concentrate on front squats? Could I add them in throughout the week on days that I have a little gas left in the tank and still recover enough for the next days workout?

on the squat/bench/squat the second movement is suposed to be a squat itselft or a variation to work on your weakness. So if front squats bring your lifts up you can do them there, just pick the rep/set/% range choosen by sheiko and adjust it to your fs max instead of your bs max.

I had wondered about that but wanted to be sure before I changed the program. I appreciate the insight, as the version I have is not translated very well. Thanks again!

http://rapidshare.com/files/179760276/Sheiko_Spreadsheet_2008.08.25.xls Some of them have front squats already in them.

That didn’t work

How do I attach an Excell spreadsheet?

The biggest thing to remember Sheiko was a coach, Just like many other people that put programs out that are out there, 5/3/1, Westside, Juggernaut Method, or whom ever it may be. Should a coach that has never met you tell how or what to do in training? I definately wouldn’t. It’s the same idea with this, if you think it would work for you why not? Sheiko programs are long session I did direct sheiko programs for almost 32 weeks and I didn’t enjoy all of them, but they’re a few consistencies that are generally constant with people that train in a high frequency manner such as sheiko.

A) They control volume weekly/biweekly/monthly

B) They do what they feel like doing, (If it’s deadlift day and it says 2x6x80% and you want to do 5x5x70%, It’s is it going to affect you in the long run probably not and they enjoy training alot more.)

C) They know when to push they’re numbers and when not to

D) this Could just be me but I have a better understanding of where my numbers are at in training, i.e If I do 3x6x365 on deadlift day, I know it converts to ~485lb deadlift now if it goes up to 3x6x405, I’m looking at a 525lb deadlift if I were to get ready for a meet

Yeah I agree with having control of your own program and I definitely listen to my body more now than I did 5 years ago. To be honest though I would probably still workout until a bone came through the skin, lol. Im just at the weird point where I know longer have a coach but still learning how to coach myself. Its seems easier for me to watch and help others than it is to objectively pick my own weaknesses and modify as needed. The learning process never ends, but thats a good thing.

Hey popeye,

I’m currently running Sheiko. I agree with Ryan about Sheiko being a coach and you shouldnt necessarily follow the programs blind, and a few of us have stated the same thing several times on here. However, I don’t see a problem running all of the “Sheiko” programs once or twice to get a feel for things.

Anyway, I’m currently doing just that – running the numbered Sheiko programs and trying to fit in front squats. Since my front squat sucks so much, I started low, and have been able to progress linearly. What I’ve done is this:

Replace my squat down sets with front squats (on whatever days call for down sets on the squat). If the day doesn’t call for it, I just add the front squats.

I front squat on Monday and Friday. Friday I guess was the first day I started front squatting, so I did 6x2 (6 doubles) at weight Y.

On Monday, I did 6x3 at weight Y. Friday I think added 5 lbs and did 6x2 (So 6x2 with Y plus 5). Monday I did 6x3. Every friday I add 5 lbs, do 6x2. Monday I take it to triples.

So far I’ve only been doing it for about a month, but it’s been able to work my front squat without burning me out a shit ton. One thing I’ve learned from Sheiko is that you definitely have more capacity for volume than you think.

Once this linear progression fails, I’ll reassess and think of something else.

After the initial three days of lifting in the week (Mon, Wed, Fri) could a Saturday be used for upper assistance work such as various rows and pulls to balance out the benching? Has anyone heard of this being beneficial and not affecting the following weeks Monday session?

[quote]Diluted56 wrote:
After the initial three days of lifting in the week (Mon, Wed, Fri) could a Saturday be used for upper assistance work such as various rows and pulls to balance out the benching? Has anyone heard of this being beneficial and not affecting the following weeks Monday session?[/quote]

I do exactly that. My Saturday is accessory, almost solely in the form of upper back work.

Chins supersetted with BPAs
DB Rows
CS DB Rows
Curls
Core

Absolutely not detrimental to Monday’s session. Soon I’ll start actually deadlifting on Saturdays as well. As per CMS MS programs.

Additionally, do BPAs every single day.

I agree with what Dave saying. It’s probably the most ideal way to go. I rarely do the chest flies/good mornings instead I do them at the end of my AM session or at the very beginning the session they don’t need to be heavy, but enough to create a stimulus. The biggest thing is just get it in. If I have time between classes I’ll go in and do 10 sets of face pulls then go to class

Thanks for all the insights guys, much appreciated. I will adjust as needed.

I’ve been trying all day to figure out what BPA stands for, anyone want to help?

Im assuming band pull aparts.

[quote]DaveForner wrote:

[quote]Diluted56 wrote:
After the initial three days of lifting in the week (Mon, Wed, Fri) could a Saturday be used for upper assistance work such as various rows and pulls to balance out the benching? Has anyone heard of this being beneficial and not affecting the following weeks Monday session?[/quote]

I do exactly that. My Saturday is accessory, almost solely in the form of upper back work.

Chins supersetted with BPAs
DB Rows
CS DB Rows
Curls
Core

Absolutely not detrimental to Monday’s session. Soon I’ll start actually deadlifting on Saturdays as well. As per CMS MS programs.

Additionally, do BPAs every single day.[/quote]

Thanks Dave for the reply! Definitely will do these on Saturday’s!

Also wanted to ask and I have been doing some reading and researching on other sites as to how to program Sheiko with single ply gear?

I’ve heard some different views on it such as anything above 70% using suit with straps down, 80% add wraps and only a few bits and pieces with using a bench shirt. Should trial and error be the best approach to this? Such as either the first classic lift use gear and the rest of the session lifts be done raw or only one classic lift done per week in gear and the othe 2 training sessions just raw… Just been trying to come up with a plan for later on in the year when I compete in single ply.

Glad to help.

BPA is indeed band pull apart.

As for gear programming, I’m not entirely sure. I think this is more where following the programs directly becomes fairly convoluted. I know Adam Ramzy has experience with this (very successfully, I might add), so hopefully he’ll chime in.

I’ve been thinking about it recently, actually. If I were to do it, I’d likely have one of the days be in my suit, one in the shirt, deadlift day always do some sets in suit. I’d almost like to say that you should just go full gear, and if you can’t hit depth until your top sets, that’s okay. Same with bench, if you can’t touch, that’s fine. It will really take knowing your lifts very well to do this, I would imagine. Anyway, that’s just rambling, I really can’t answer this just yet – I’ve only trained raw.

[quote]DaveForner wrote:
Glad to help.

BPA is indeed band pull apart.

As for gear programming, I’m not entirely sure. I think this is more where following the programs directly becomes fairly convoluted. I know Adam Ramzy has experience with this (very successfully, I might add), so hopefully he’ll chime in.

I’ve been thinking about it recently, actually. If I were to do it, I’d likely have one of the days be in my suit, one in the shirt, deadlift day always do some sets in suit. I’d almost like to say that you should just go full gear, and if you can’t hit depth until your top sets, that’s okay. Same with bench, if you can’t touch, that’s fine. It will really take knowing your lifts very well to do this, I would imagine. Anyway, that’s just rambling, I really can’t answer this just yet – I’ve only trained raw.[/quote]

Many thanks for this kind words.

As far as programming in single ply gear, it depends on the lift… For squat it is very simple and worked amazing for me (went from a 245-300kg single ply squat in under 1 year). I’m still working on the bench. For deadlift, also very simple.

Squat:
IMO lots of straps down with the squat suit is key. My most common programming is:
Monday AM: straps down squats
Monday PM: belt/wrap
Friday: varies… if 2 sessions I often enjoy doing the 2nd beltless and the first is either belt/wrap or suit bottoms.

To start I would say just one session a week in the suit. If the competition is more that 16 weeks away, once per week is good. Once you get close to the meet I would often ditch the monday PM squat and do 1 straps up session on Monday and 1 straps down session on Friday. Remember, in the suit YEAR ROUND - you are good at what you practise.

The frank truth, is that you program them in just how you would without the suit BUT you need to be conservative. When I train with just a belt my squat might be 415 5x3… With the suit I will need to do say 555 5x3… That is a HUGE difference in weight!!! The 555 will move very fast but I will feel sooo tired at the end. When I try to make the sets feel a comparable RPE to my raw training, I will always feel awful for a week.

Now bench… Well the bench is my nightmare (did 230kg no problem in training but bombed with 215kg at jr worlds…) ANYWAYS… What I have heard from Dunn is that the russian team will put on a shirt once per week that will be 1 size loose and they will do regular 80% 5x3 (a friend of his with a 300kg bench does 240kg 5x3 regularily) AND add in 3 sets of board work with near competition max weights (maybe 280kg 3x2 off a 2bd). For me in the past, I never had regular training partners and time to really do that so I just put the competition shirt on once every week or 2 for 10 weeks and just practised getting the bar to touch.

For deadlift… Well you really only need to put on the suit twice before a meet IMO… 8 weeks out and 4 weeks out and it ought to be sufficient… Again, the 8 week out session may be a skills evaluation (or 4 weeks out depending on how you do it… ‘sheiko’ programs suggest 4 weeks out, I almsot prefer no true skills evaluation but more so just doing some <95% singles for a change).

That reminds me… When to put on the suit/shirt? Definitely not before 70% but this is what I found worked great. % are calculated based on max with that particular set of gear on.

Squat warmup:
50% x5
*belt
60% x4
*wrap
70% x3
*suit bottoms
70% x3
80% 5x3
I personally often add in a second belt/wrap warmup:

Something like this worked for me before nationals 2012:
235 x5
*belt
295 x4
*Wraps
375 x3
435 x3
*bottoms
505 x3
555 5x3
This is the general scheme I did leading up to nationals.

Once I got to be 8 weeks out I added in more higher intensity weights but I feel like that was a mistake often. Live and learn.

Anyways, this post is long enough ahhaha. LMK if you have more questions.

Thanks for that huge wealth of knowledge, Adam.

Why do you feel lots of strap down work is key? Versus, say, more work straps up. Other than the obvious fact that getting anywhere near depth straps up is going to take a lot more weight, and therefore a lot more “effort” out of you?

When you were doing your “practice the bar to touch” would you use any boards? I imagine not if you didn’t have reliable set of training partners? Would you essentially just go to wear the shirt bound up, and then press?

I like the idea of 1 size loose shirt, but that also somewhat raises the issue of not REALLY practicing how you compete. It’s close, of course, but not 100 percent the same. What are your thoughts on this?

Anyway, thanks for the insight on the gear training. Some day I might get back in to it. Although my raw squat is quickly approaching my old gear max lol.