T Nation

SHBG, Aromatisation and E2

I have a vial of Masteron on hand so I decided to inject 80mg ontop of my weekly dose of 160mg Test Cyp (80mg x2 weekly). On this day I also picked up some Zinc in the hopes it would help fat loss. I’m approximately 110kg with quite a lot of stubborn fat. Anyways, a few hours after injecting 80mg Test Cyp and 80mg Masteron I am hit with insane depression and anxiety. It is now the next day and I still feel extremely edgy and depressed, I don’t want to have to just wait this out and would rather try abolish what seems to be a negative effect from Masterons MOA.

What would be the mechanism behind this? SHBG? e2? I just so happened to run out of testosterone so I cannot inject more to offset the side effects - I receive more in 2 days - I have nothing else on hand except some Ostarine.

I’ve never had that effect with Drostanolone propionate. I was injecting 100mg M/T.
Infact I could hardly tell it was doing anything. After about 3 week I felt my pumps were a little better.
Anyway I only tried it once did not think it was for me. Probably took too little.

For the anxiety since you probably don’t have any benzo’s laying around whiskey will help. I would not do more than 2 shots unless you are already a heavy drinker.

How clean do you think your masteron is? Do you trust this UGL?

I’ve always abided by the logic it isn’t substance use per se that instantaneously fuels addiction, but rather the relationship one has with a substance.

Using alcohol as a crutch to self medicate is a slippery slope to addiction, notwithstanding the level of toxicity associated with alcohol.

Regular abuse of alcohol + AAS = a fucked up heart, liver, further neurological dysregulation amongst other variables.

Two drinks is ehhh, but it tends to escalate when using alcohol for self medication.

For anxiety benzodiazepines ought to be a last resort (i.e for those who have intractable anxiety and associated panic attacks that can’t be treated with alternatives).

OP states he’s feeling depressed, benzodiazepines aren’t indicated for treatment of depression. For acute/subacute anxiety/sleep disorders on the other hand they can work wonders.

They can also work for chronic, intractable anxiety; but long term use is associated with significant downsides like dependence (very difficult to come off), cognitive stunting/long standing neurotoxicity, adverse effects on mental health etc. So if contemplating long term use I’d think that’d be a discussion you’d want to have with your physician weighing out the long term consequences vs perceived benefit.

For some the benefit will outweigh the risk.

Jeeze unreal you sure read and addressed a lot into my post that was not there.

The OP had an acute reaction to an AAS. He only used it one time and has no plans to use it again. He asked for a quick fix for the depression and anxiety he was experiencing.

There are no quick acting drugs for depression. SSRI’s SNRI’s require lots of time to boost your serotonin.
There is for anxiety. Benzos, but I guessed he had no access to one of them. Benzos boost GABA and so does whiskey right away no waiting days. 1 benzo cut in half and taken for two days would have gotten him out of this acute one time self inflected depressive event. 2 shots of whiskey would be the next best thing.
My suggestion was not become an alcoholic for the rest of your life.

Rather than attacking my suggestions offer the OP some help.

Sir this wasn’t my intention. Rather I wanted to state OP shouldn’t be drinking to self medicate. If self medication was the goal (which I don’t recommend) at the very least benzodiazepines are indicated for the treatment of acute anxiety whereas alcohol is strictly a recreational drug (though it can be beneficial for essential tremors and the likes).

I suppose, though I personally find it hard to believe anyone could react this badly from less than 1/2ml of masteron within a window of a few hours. @lordgains would be more versed to clarify though as he is a pharmacist.

I don’t think a long estered drug like masteron enanthate (I assume enanthate as he is using with test cyp) would even begin to release into the bloodstream within a few hours post use.

I’d understand if he was having an acute reaction to a shot of tren ace, TNE, certain orals, clen etc but I’m hard pressed to believe someone can have such a deleterious reaction to a long estered drug in the timeframe if a few hours

Take test for example, I turn into a bloatlord on dosages above 150mg/wk. If I was to take a 250mg shot of test E it takes 24-36 hours prior to water retention becoming apparent, then another 2-3 days before I start breaking out in acne.

To offer some help I’d first state 80mg is a low dose, if it really is the mast chances are any discomfort be over soon, within the next week or two. If it’s mast prop even sooner, within a few days.

There’s a possibility OP has offset the balance of androgen/E2 and he isn’t reacting kindly, there’s also AAS mediated neurological dysregulation of which some can be particularly sensitive to. Some simply can’t tolerate androgens/AAS at all! But as I’ve specified, if it’s mast E, chances are this isn’t the mast if the negative reaction was elicited over the span of a few hours.

If the anxiety is severe OP could try book an appointment with a doctor of which he has a good relationship with and try to explain his circumstances if possible. If depression is culpable for the majority of OP’s vested symptomatology benzodiazepines would be a bad idea.

Should also be noted SSRI’s/SNRI’s, tricyclic antidepressants and MAOI’s aren’t the only meds available for treatment of depression. Bupropion (NDRI) is relatively fast acting in comparison to SSRI’s and SNRI’s, though not good enough for acute management.

I have insomnia (due to persistent pain and discomfort), when it gets really bad I can sometimes acquire a script for 3-5 benzodiazepine tablets at a time. I take them a few times per month when things get really rough

I never said you were suggesting this. You’re putting words in my mouth.

If OP becomes accustomed to using alcohol as a crutch to treat depression or anxiety it can lead to a recurrent pattern of behaviour down the line. I’ve done this with alcohol before. I used to drink quite a bit prior to attending large gatherings as it’d calm my nerves/anxieties about socialising.

Soon I found instead of dealing with the anxiety I’d just resort to drinking three or four beers before going out (this was a while back). This wasn’t a healthy relationship with alcohol, I wasn’t an addict; though I was using the substance as a crutch.

It started as a once off through recommendation from an adult when I was around seventeen “I’ll swing back a couple of drinks to feel more comfortable in an otherwise new and unknown paridigm” and turned into “I’ll drink every time before I go out if the environment is foreign to me”… Then it turned into “I’ll drink when I feel down or insecure” at which point I realised I was using alcohol to cover perceived vulnerability, but instead of working on the emotional groundwork that led to me feeling vulnerable I focused on eliminating the physical sensation by any means possible.

I was never an alcoholic, though had I kept going down that line I wouldn’t have put it past me as alcohol (out of everything I ever tried back in the day) seems to be the most enjoyable (to me)

Upon realising this relationship was a toxic dynamic I ceased the pattern of behaviour immediately. No one ever said anything because drinking is suuuppper encouraged amongst the young adult/student demographic. It should be noted drinking was generally a given upon arrival to these events, it was the “pre” drinking and rocking up a little bit tipsy that was particularly problematic in my eyes.

I’ve seen similar patterns of behaviour devolve into flat out substance dependence and addiction within others.

I hardly ever drink now, I find it to be an expensive waste of time suitable only for special occasions.

Thanks for again putting my credentials in here but I’d prefer people not to do that, because this is an anonymous forum. I don’t want people to value my opinions based on my credentials but based on the quality of my posts. We often discuss topics here that I did not learn about in university which means my course of studies is not worth that much there. A lot of my colleagues couldn’t tell you a single thing about anabolic steroid action, some of them don’t know what a nuclear receptor is or how it works. So just being a pharmacist or just being a doctor doesn’t automatically mean one is a good pharmacist or doctor.

So just tag me without saying that I have a degree everytime please :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Your answer to this is probably what I would’ve wrote.

Bupropion is a SNDRI. It is faster acting but still needs more than a weeks as you stated.

There’s other way more interesting stuff for depression! Trazodone, Tianeptine, Mianserine, mirtazapine, Agomelatin, ketamine (fast acting),…

If we are on the topic, have you seen the TRKB signaling explanation of antidepressant action (Castren et al.)? So fascinating and finally one that would make sense

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I went in for a keterooni infusion for chronic pain once. Worked wonders regarding both long lasting pain relief and depression. You can’t really get a ketamine infusion for treatment resistant depression here as we tend to lag behind regarding any experimental/novel treatments that may be available overseas. I credit that infusion for snapping me out of a very dark headspace at the time.

The infusion lasted seven days, I recall it felt as if it went by very quickly. I went in with books to read and other methods of entertainment but spent a large portion of the time listening to music… I sent a few… Odd texts to people during peak dosing.

I remember there was a window by my room, directly ahead were multiple rooms built identically to mine visible through the window. So I sent a text to a relative with a picture of the rooms visible outside my window and said “the building is structurally identical from all sides, all rooms consist of the same beds, TV’s and whatnot. I’m @unreal24278, the rooms are all the same, therefore there are multiple @unreal24278’s receiving treatment. There are so many unreal’s here, I’m everywhere!”.

I was partially correct, as many in the ward I was in were receiving ketamine infusions.

Also remember walking outside of my room, walking down the hallway to buy a chocolate bar and getting lost because… At the time everything looked the same. Up was down, left was right etc.

Was still somehow able to post on here, just took a little bit of effort to coherently articulate myself.

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No, will look into it though

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You can’t get it here either as far as I know but there’s a nasal spray coming or even already on the market.

I think we lost the OP since he has not been back and who would blame him? all options offered requires a doctor and weeks to work. My guess is he walked into an emergency room for the instant help he needed and asked us for or he did the unthinkable.

Feeling slightly better today - the last two days it felt like I literally had no soul - Couldn’t make eye contact with anyone and felt as if I needed to isolate myself as I felt like a piece of crap. Managed to get a good back and arms workout in last night and finished it off with a sauna session and helped somewhat. Bloody test vials still havent arrived but seems to be a linear improvement as time goes on…weird…

Thank you for posting to let us know you are still alive. So sorry we could not help you. As someone who suffers from GADS an gets frequent panic attacks I took your post for help a bit serious. Relating how I feel when an attack hits there is no time for doctors or ssri’s.

It sounds like you are working threw this pain. Good man.

I sympathize OP.
Would you be willing to give GABA a try?
Even 500mg a day around 4pm works wonders for me, gives temporary relief within an hour or two.
I don’t know your brain chemistry etc, I have not heard of a bad reaction to GABA given your symptoms.