Shamrock vs. Cung Le

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
i’m personally disappointed w/ frank’s gameplan… On paper he has every tool to beat Cung Le EASILY but he didn’t utilize 80% of them.

That clip is just sad.[/quote]

I guess so. It looks like a grown man fighting a child.

Would’ve been interesting to see how the last 2 rounds would’ve went had Frank not broken his arm. Le was gassing and Frank really poured it on at the end of the 3rd before suffering the broken arm.

Le has some cool-looking kicks, but he doesn’t have KO power in his hands, and would get schooled royally by Anderson Silva.

Yeah I think that even Le knows he is king in his castle (san shou, tough guys) but doesn’t really have the parts nor the desire to get the parts to fight career MMA.

all his life he’s been gaining fans through his ability to entertain for whole fights. That inherently means that he knocks few people out in favour of beating them up for three-five rounds. Notice how much people love Le? It’s because he doen’t knock out very many guys, in a sense.

He is great at what he does. Why get new shoes when everyone loves your old ones?

-chris

Lets give Cung his credit… He can knock people out and he’s a fantastic striker w/ great skill and he was a good wrestler in college.

His professional MMA record is 6-0 All with stoppages (tko’s)…kicks, cuts, breakage, strikes, punch.

in k-1 he’s 3-0 with 1 knockout

Didn’t look for his San Shou record but I’m sure that impressive,

From Wikipedia: [i]
Cung Le has three bronze medals in amateur San Shou kickboxing world competition, and has been a three-time captain of the United States teams that competed in the Wushu World Championships. Le was the U.S. team captain at the World Martial Arts Championships in 1997 (Italy) and 1999 (Hong Kong).

On 15 December 2001 he defeated Shonie Carter by unanimous decision in San Jose, CA to win the IKF Pro Light-Heavyweight San Shou World Title.
[/i]

Thats more than 90% of MMA strikers can say.

Now with all due respect to him, i am not as inspired with rage as some of his detractors but i do believe that his nuthuggers have overrated his striking ability.

He doesn’t have the pedigree everyone makes his striking out to seem like. They make him sound as if he’s Michael McDonald

Short Run Down Of the “Black Assassin”

  • 2004 K-1 North American Grand-Prix Champion
  • 2002 K-1 North American Grand-Prix Champion
  • 2002 K-1 USA GP Champion
  • W.K.C. World Cruiser Weight Champion
  • W.K.A. North American Heavyweight Champion
  • Canadian Heavyweight Champion

That is what most people make Cung sound like.

While he’s no slouch at all… He’s not what everyone is clamoring about. I mean for instance name another San Shou fighter other than Cung Le. VERY few people can. Thats because there’s little depth in that sport and he’s a big fish in a little pond. I believe he’d be exposed in K-1, and the upper echelons of MMA.

The problem in MMA right now is that people want to prove themselves by standing and banging with Cung. Frank Shamrock said a while back that the future of MMA is the standup game (this was during the tito, hammer house era). People dont want to see grappling… so even guys with wrestling pedigree’s such as Hendo want to stand and bang.

Its pretty obvious when you have guys that should be subbing Cung Le standing with him and trying to trade with a striker in his element…getting picked apart, and not being smart enough to change their gameplan (ie. Frank)

So while he’s not the best striker in the world he’s easily a top tier MMA striker just based off of his record. Undefeated, every fight a stoppage because of his striking? DAMN.

Shit no matter what you want to say about him he’s making it happen. Now all thats left to see is what will happen when he faces worthy opponents.

I think his potential is HIGH. Imagine what happens if/when he sticks to mma and develops a ground game. Natural athletic ability + Killer Instinct + Experience… that is a dangerous fellow.

But lets not throw him to anderson silva or GSP yet (Le fought at 175, i bet you he could make the cut to 170).

And that .gif? something you seen in Muay Thai all the time but never in MMA. A.Silva, Cung Le, Jamie Varner, etc these guys are bringing a revolution to the striking game. No more sitting in the pocket and expecting to throw bombs and just hope one hits.

no more “horse shoes and hand grenades” type striking its about pinpoint precision.

I think Cung’s potential is high as well.

I think his striking is as good as Anderson Silva’s. It is very different. But based soley on technique you can tell Cung has great talent. His all around mma game isn’t close to Anderson’s of course.

All I know about San Shou is that it is a combination of striking+throws+some wrestling. Kind of like Shootboxing. I don’t know how deep competition is. But I don’t think that means he isn’t a great striker. Watching him is enough to tell he is a top flight striker. He is more accomplished in striking comp than Anderson Silva. Anderson isn’t a Yodsaenklai or Saenchai in Muay Thai. Or even a Sponge or Kaoklai. Though Anderson does have excellent striking skills even if he was involved in kickboxing only. So I think Cung does deserve props for his striking.

Cung makes that striking work in pro mma. That is impressive. I would have been hard pressed to even say that you could get away with that striking in K-1 before I ever saw Cung fight. But he does make it work. That he would get exposed in K-1 is a moot point because he is too small for K-1 which is open weight and too big to make K-1 max. He is a unique talent.

^^i agree for the most part but i think anderson’s style of mma striking puts away opponents much more efficiently than cungs.

a.silva will steal your warrior spirit and wear it as a patch on his shorts.

Le is great, and an amazing talent. But I think if he faced what i feel are worthy opponents then he wouldn’t be the phenom he’s made out to be.

He’d be vulnerable, but still with an incredibly bright future.

I wish they were the same weight because a fight a between him and malapeit would just tickle my balls.

Interesting fight. Lots of fun looking moves in there…but it seemed to me that neither of them really had a killer instinct until late in the third. IMHO, Shamrock was doing too much gamesmanship in the first two rounds as well, having rocked Le a bit at a couple points. The announcers were actually right…it looked like a sparring match in the first 2. Score a couple hits, back off, score a couple kicks, back off. Rock Shamrock with a hard kick, take a step back and let him breathe. And vice versa.

[quote]analog_kid wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
i’m personally disappointed w/ frank’s gameplan… On paper he has every tool to beat Cung Le EASILY but he didn’t utilize 80% of them.

That clip is just sad.

I guess so. It looks like a grown man fighting a child.

[/quote]

Exactly.

I like watching San Shou itself.

That said , Cung Le needs to continue fighting at the pace he is doing now - if he is serious about high level MMA.

Too many “fans” think a couple of bouts to warm up and then fighter “should” be in title fight.