[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I belive we’re circling back to the time where a trade degree is infinitely more valuable than graduating from a traditional school.[/quote]
If you took out “infinitely more” and put “equally” I would say you are correct.
But both people depend on each other. The plumber needs people to hire him, and the desk jockey needs his pipes fixed.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I belive we’re circling back to the time where a trade degree is infinitely more valuable than graduating from a traditional school.[/quote]
If you took out “infinitely more” and put “equally” I would say you are correct.
But both people depend on each other. The plumber needs people to hire him, and the desk jockey needs his pipes fixed.[/quote]
I married the wife to fix the pipes…
I agree with you Beans
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I belive we’re circling back to the time where a trade degree is infinitely more valuable than graduating from a traditional school.[/quote]
If you took out “infinitely more” and put “equally” I would say you are correct.
But both people depend on each other. The plumber needs people to hire him, and the desk jockey needs his pipes fixed.[/quote]
I married the wife to fix the pipes…
I agree with you Beans[/quote]
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
^ not necessarily, but schools while purpose is as a vessel to take you to your career. As it stands, going to school is proving a waste of time in that regard. Let’s also not ignore the absolutely ridiculous and time wasting pre-reqs like college algebra and everything after. If you’re not a mathematician or physicist, it’s a complete waste of time as you’ll NEVER use that shit in your life. Trade schools skip all that and teach you directly what you need to get a job in your chosen field. Plumbers, electricians, a/c repairmen, etc… All make a good to great living (depending on your definition) and didn’t need to “learn” any of the nonsense you’re forced to sit through at your local college.[/quote]
Those pre-reqs can be quite valuable to expand your base knowledge so you’re not learning “one thing” like Derek mentioned. Most jobs you acquire after trade school pay well, but you are also working many more hours than most B.S. degrees from a traditional university.
Also, getting a good job after college really depends on your major and which university you attended. I was the one of the last my school friends to get a job in the Electrical Engineering field, and I got the job before I graduated. Many people do not focus on learning the right skills in college and worry only about the grades, which are useless after you graduate. At the end of the day, you’re in charge of your own education.
EDIT: I just graduated in June.
Damnit I cant see video at work.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I belive we’re circling back to the time where a trade degree is infinitely more valuable than graduating from a traditional school.[/quote]
If you took out “infinitely more” and put “equally” I would say you are correct.
But both people depend on each other. The plumber needs people to hire him, and the desk jockey needs his pipes fixed.[/quote]
I married the wife to fix the pipes…
I agree with you Beans[/quote]
Fair enough, but how many plumbers out there are working at Chili’s 'cause they can’t get a “real” job? There are literally thousands of recent graduates who are in that exact position right now. It’s scary out there. And I mean this with no offense, but y’all both graduated a long time ago (in a relative sense). Things are much more different now then they were even 6-7 years ago. Shit’s changed.
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
^ not necessarily, but schools while purpose is as a vessel to take you to your career. As it stands, going to school is proving a waste of time in that regard. Let’s also not ignore the absolutely ridiculous and time wasting pre-reqs like college algebra and everything after. If you’re not a mathematician or physicist, it’s a complete waste of time as you’ll NEVER use that shit in your life. Trade schools skip all that and teach you directly what you need to get a job in your chosen field. Plumbers, electricians, a/c repairmen, etc… All make a good to great living (depending on your definition) and didn’t need to “learn” any of the nonsense you’re forced to sit through at your local college.[/quote]
Those pre-reqs can be quite valuable to expand your base knowledge so you’re not learning “one thing” like Derek mentioned. Most jobs you acquire after trade school pay well, but you are also working many more hours than most B.S. degrees from a traditional university.
Also, getting a good job after college really depends on your major and which university you attended. I was the one of the last my school friends to get a job in the Electrical Engineering field, and I got the job before I graduated. Many people do not focus on learning the right skills in college and worry only about the grades, which are useless after you graduate. At the end of the day, you’re in charge of your own education.
EDIT: I just graduated in June.[/quote]
One more from Twain “I never let my schooling interfere with my education”. Base knowledge is important, but you can do that in your free time. And, there are A LOT of educated idiots out there. There are obviously certain degrees that lend themselves to getting employed quicker than others, but I personally know several people who graduated from fairly prestigious schools and/or programs in the area that can’t find a job in their chosen field to save their life.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I belive we’re circling back to the time where a trade degree is infinitely more valuable than graduating from a traditional school.[/quote]
If you took out “infinitely more” and put “equally” I would say you are correct.
But both people depend on each other. The plumber needs people to hire him, and the desk jockey needs his pipes fixed.[/quote]
I married the wife to fix the pipes…
I agree with you Beans[/quote]
Fair enough, but how many plumbers out there are working at Chili’s 'cause they can’t get a “real” job? There are literally thousands of recent graduates who are in that exact position right now. It’s scary out there. And I mean this with no offense, but y’all both graduated a long time ago (in a relative sense). Things are much more different now then they were even 6-7 years ago. Shit’s changed.
[/quote]
You are 100% correct here, without a doubt.
It is a whole new world, and to expect a sudden change back to “the way it was” is silly. Getting into a trade rather than going to college will benefit not just the people that do it going forward.
We need less people going to school, but at the same time, more jobs that don’t require a degree to make a living. Trades are one of the few left of the latter.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I belive we’re circling back to the time where a trade degree is infinitely more valuable than graduating from a traditional school.[/quote]
If you took out “infinitely more” and put “equally” I would say you are correct.
But both people depend on each other. The plumber needs people to hire him, and the desk jockey needs his pipes fixed.[/quote]
I married the wife to fix the pipes…
I agree with you Beans[/quote]
Fair enough, but how many plumbers out there are working at Chili’s 'cause they can’t get a “real” job? There are literally thousands of recent graduates who are in that exact position right now. It’s scary out there. And I mean this with no offense, but y’all both graduated a long time ago (in a relative sense). Things are much more different now then they were even 6-7 years ago. Shit’s changed.
[/quote]
WF I do occupational medicine, I am the guy who does all the pre-employment physicals, and such for all those jobs you are talking about.
Its a great living, however it is far from a consistent profession though.
Also people are people some succeed in any profession and some do not, my dad started out as a Pipe Fitter and ended up a Project Super.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
^ not necessarily, but schools while purpose is as a vessel to take you to your career. As it stands, going to school is proving a waste of time in that regard. Let’s also not ignore the absolutely ridiculous and time wasting pre-reqs like college algebra and everything after. If you’re not a mathematician or physicist, it’s a complete waste of time as you’ll NEVER use that shit in your life. Trade schools skip all that and teach you directly what you need to get a job in your chosen field. Plumbers, electricians, a/c repairmen, etc… All make a good to great living (depending on your definition) and didn’t need to “learn” any of the nonsense you’re forced to sit through at your local college.[/quote]
Those pre-reqs can be quite valuable to expand your base knowledge so you’re not learning “one thing” like Derek mentioned. Most jobs you acquire after trade school pay well, but you are also working many more hours than most B.S. degrees from a traditional university.
Also, getting a good job after college really depends on your major and which university you attended. I was the one of the last my school friends to get a job in the Electrical Engineering field, and I got the job before I graduated. Many people do not focus on learning the right skills in college and worry only about the grades, which are useless after you graduate. At the end of the day, you’re in charge of your own education.
EDIT: I just graduated in June.[/quote]
One more from Twain “I never let my schooling interfere with my education”. Base knowledge is important, but you can do that in your free time. And, there are A LOT of educated idiots out there. There are obviously certain degrees that lend themselves to getting employed quicker than others, but I personally know several people who graduated from fairly prestigious schools and/or programs in the area that can’t find a job in their chosen field to save their life.
[/quote]
Yes, I think that will always be the case for college graduates. Some very intelligent people can’t present themselves properly to impress potential employers. You’re right about “educated” idiots though. A large portion of people go to college just to “go to college,” and happen to be the biggest dumbasses you could imagine. There was clearly a VERY different mentality and outlook on things between the engineering student and a majority of other majors. I bet you can guess which group got more jobs.
Beans (and Derek or anyone else with education and experience), honest question: do you foresee our system going back “to the way it was” any time soon, or are we in a new era? Obviously there’s no way to predict it either way, I’m just asking for your personal, educated opinion.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I belive we’re circling back to the time where a trade degree is infinitely more valuable than graduating from a traditional school.[/quote]
If you took out “infinitely more” and put “equally” I would say you are correct.
But both people depend on each other. The plumber needs people to hire him, and the desk jockey needs his pipes fixed.[/quote]
I married the wife to fix the pipes…
I agree with you Beans[/quote]
Fair enough, but how many plumbers out there are working at Chili’s 'cause they can’t get a “real” job?
[/quote]
It’s getting better but there are actually quite a few in the building trades that are out of work. My friend is a master plumber and went two years with only sporadic jobs.
That trades degree/cert can also severely limit upward mobility. Construction when you are thirty is a pretty good gig, at fifty-five not so much.
I am a mechanical designer by trade but also was a machinist with a combined thirty plus years of experience, yet I am competing with degreed engineers for design jobs. Guess what generally wins out when looking for jobs despite the fact they generally have zero real world knowledge.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I belive we’re circling back to the time where a trade degree is infinitely more valuable than graduating from a traditional school.[/quote]
If you took out “infinitely more” and put “equally” I would say you are correct.
But both people depend on each other. The plumber needs people to hire him, and the desk jockey needs his pipes fixed.[/quote]
I married the wife to fix the pipes…
I agree with you Beans[/quote]
Fair enough, but how many plumbers out there are working at Chili’s 'cause they can’t get a “real” job? There are literally thousands of recent graduates who are in that exact position right now. It’s scary out there. And I mean this with no offense, but y’all both graduated a long time ago (in a relative sense). Things are much more different now then they were even 6-7 years ago. Shit’s changed.
[/quote]
WF I do occupational medicine, I am the guy who does all the pre-employment physicals, and such for all those jobs you are talking about.
Its a great living, however it is far from a consistent profession though.
Also people are people some succeed in any profession and some do not, my dad started out as a Pipe Fitter and ended up a Project Super. [/quote]
That seems like a fairly recession proof gig. But, I also imagine it’s fairly stressful. Bet your pop did pretty damn well as a super. Did his advancement require any extra schooling or certs, or was it strictly performance based?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Beans (and Derek or anyone else with education and experience), honest question: do you foresee our system going back “to the way it was” any time soon, or are we in a new era? Obviously there’s no way to predict it either way, I’m just asking for your personal, educated opinion.[/quote]
Most things are cyclical in nature, I do know that right now there are shortages of good tradesman fucking Millwrights are a dying trade for sure.
I would assume we will reach a balance of sorts, a lot of times advancements in technology decides these things. A lot of trades disappeared with the advent of cheaper/disposable/computer driven products. Look at Detroit.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Beans (and Derek or anyone else with education and experience), honest question: do you foresee our system going back “to the way it was” any time soon, or are we in a new era? Obviously there’s no way to predict it either way, I’m just asking for your personal, educated opinion.[/quote]
I don’t see it going back, if anything it will be a requirement for more mundane jobs. I am actually seeing a trend of a BS being a bare minimum with a masters almost a requirement in some fields.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I belive we’re circling back to the time where a trade degree is infinitely more valuable than graduating from a traditional school.[/quote]
If you took out “infinitely more” and put “equally” I would say you are correct.
But both people depend on each other. The plumber needs people to hire him, and the desk jockey needs his pipes fixed.[/quote]
I married the wife to fix the pipes…
I agree with you Beans[/quote]
Fair enough, but how many plumbers out there are working at Chili’s 'cause they can’t get a “real” job?
[/quote]
It’s getting better but there are actually quite a few in the building trades that are out of work. My friend is a master plumber and went two years with only sporadic jobs.
That trades degree/cert can also severely limit upward mobility. Construction when you are thirty is a pretty good gig, at fifty-five not so much.
I am a mechanical designer by trade but also was a machinist with a combined thirty plus years of experience, yet I am competing with degreed engineers for design jobs. Guess what generally wins out when looking for jobs despite the fact they generally have zero real world knowledge.[/quote]
Hopefully when the greenhorn’s screw up 'cause their books didn’t teach 'em real world application you can come in and take over.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I belive we’re circling back to the time where a trade degree is infinitely more valuable than graduating from a traditional school.[/quote]
If you took out “infinitely more” and put “equally” I would say you are correct.
But both people depend on each other. The plumber needs people to hire him, and the desk jockey needs his pipes fixed.[/quote]
I married the wife to fix the pipes…
I agree with you Beans[/quote]
Fair enough, but how many plumbers out there are working at Chili’s 'cause they can’t get a “real” job? There are literally thousands of recent graduates who are in that exact position right now. It’s scary out there. And I mean this with no offense, but y’all both graduated a long time ago (in a relative sense). Things are much more different now then they were even 6-7 years ago. Shit’s changed.
[/quote]
WF I do occupational medicine, I am the guy who does all the pre-employment physicals, and such for all those jobs you are talking about.
Its a great living, however it is far from a consistent profession though.
Also people are people some succeed in any profession and some do not, my dad started out as a Pipe Fitter and ended up a Project Super. [/quote]
That seems like a fairly recession proof gig. But, I also imagine it’s fairly stressful. Bet your pop did pretty damn well as a super. Did his advancement require any extra schooling or certs, or was it strictly performance based?[/quote]
Yea I actually found a niche where the Govt has mandated things from Company’s and not many companys do what we do. Work is stressful, I would love to be a fucking NFL scout, but I am sure it would get stressful also.
Pops is old school and earned his way, he was Project manager for Bay const for 20 years, then semi retired to run a cattle ranch in Beeville. Recently went back to work supervising Engineers and such for 300K a year building power plants in Okla and fixing to go to Chile. Nothing but a HS education.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Beans (and Derek or anyone else with education and experience), honest question: do you foresee our system going back “to the way it was” any time soon, or are we in a new era? Obviously there’s no way to predict it either way, I’m just asking for your personal, educated opinion.[/quote]
Most things are cyclical in nature, I do know that right now there are shortages of good tradesman fucking Millwrights are a dying trade for sure.
I would assume we will reach a balance of sorts, a lot of times advancements in technology decides these things. A lot of trades disappeared with the advent of cheaper/disposable/computer driven products. Look at Detroit. [/quote]
One of the problems is one of respect. Some of the smartest people I know are machinst yet they were treated as disposable tools. It is what drove me from the trade.
Additionally, it is not like tradesmen don’t go to school, just not for as long. A lot of the classes I took for trades allowed me to test out of classes in my design degree.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Beans (and Derek or anyone else with education and experience), honest question: do you foresee our system going back “to the way it was” any time soon, or are we in a new era? Obviously there’s no way to predict it either way, I’m just asking for your personal, educated opinion.[/quote]
I don’t see it going back, if anything it will be a requirement for more mundane jobs. I am actually seeing a trend of a BS being a bare minimum with a masters almost a requirement in some fields.
[/quote]
I can see this. There are a handful of jobs that as recently as five years ago required just a bachelors and now require a PhD or its equivalent. That alone will weed out potential applicants to the program.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Beans (and Derek or anyone else with education and experience), honest question: do you foresee our system going back “to the way it was” any time soon,[/quote]
Not before we hit rock bottom. Tough times bring out weird things in people’s way of thinking.
What is most likely to happen is we finally hit rock bottom and/or have some major technological advance, and have robust growth. During and after everyone will be happy and united.
Until then we will continue to stagnate and wallow in feelings of resentment and finger pointing, brough on by manufactured class warfare and general control of information by those that benefit from the people mad at each other. All the while hindering any growth due to fear and uncertianty.
Yes, but it doesn’t have to be a bad thing. Depends on a lot of factors. If I had to guess by the time the money starts moving again, we will have shifted back “right” towards more conservative spending habits as a nation and “traditional” values of personal responsibility and individual freedom, rather than the “left” values of manufactured “fairness” and forced economic “equality”.