I just finished (what I thought) was a successful cycle and PCT. Cycle was 12 weeks of Test Enanth 400mg/week, GH 2.5 units on workout days, Adex 0.5mg every other day. PCT was Aromasin 25mg/day and Nolva 20mg/day. Gained about 20lbs of muscle after all is said and done, so I’m pretty happy at my first stab at AAS. The problem is, I have no sex drive. I was OK when I was on the test, but I was only a real horn dog in the first half of the cycle.
PCT is where all the trouble started. I read that Nolva can have some detrimental effects on libido, which I don’t really understand since it is supposed to jack up the T level. I guess it could have some other non-receptor effect. And, by the way, Cialis doesn’t help. I had my hormone levels checked and they are good. Any thoughts out there? By the way, I’m 45 about 14% body fat at 200lbs now. Am I destined to be on T for life. Thanks for any help you guys can provide
I’m your age as well and did a a cycle of 360 test and 200 deca (a supposed libido killer). My libido was excellent throughout the cycle and after my HCG shot. But it did go down the crapper for about 2-3 weeks after my PCT. It came back fine after that.
My suggestions would be:
- Wait a few weeks if you “just” got done with PCT
- Take at least one 1000iu shot of HCG if things don’t improve
- Use Viagra. Some people get nothing from Cialis
- Check your cholesterol levels. This can affect erectile issues greatly.
I forgot to mention, I was on hCG throughout the cycle, 250 units every other day. Labs, including cholesterol was normal. I really appreciate your feedback. I’m now about 2 weeks post-PCT and I know I’m supposed to be patient, but this kinda thing is a little troubling.
Have you taken a post cycle HCG shot yet? In any case, IMO, 2 weeks after PCT is close to rock bottom. I’d give it another couple of weeks before worrying.
I have a couple of recommendations for you:
Keep running your HGH (if you are not already doing so)…HGH will have no negative effect on your HPTA recovery and should have a (small) positive effect on your libido…it will help you retain the mass you gained while you’re in a hormonally depressed state…
Next time try a test taper, it is a more gradual return to normal which avoids the hard bottom out which comes along with just stopping cold turkey (you can read about the test taper in one of the stickies at the top of the board)…it is still not a flawless PCT (nothing is) but it helps to avoid the problem you are experiencing…the issue is that your body slowly adjusted to the higher androgen levels (which is why your libido was only really high for the first half of the cycle…next time try some proviron in the second half of your cycle, it is great stuff) and now you are suddenly below ‘normal’ so it will take a bit of time your your system to adjust…it will do so but it will take a bit of time.
stick with your PCT and make sure you keep pushing yourself to get into the gym (lift heavy but keep volume a little lower than on cycle), this will help your recovery by pushing your body to make more test…you are best to get in more frequent (but less taxing) workouts in a day. don’t push yourself to exhaustion but lift heavy to get your system going…read the perfect rep stuff by CT, that’s the type of lifting you want to do (exlplosive with moderate to heavy weight, stop before you hit failure) because it will crank up your system without exhausting the nervous system too much…during PCT you aren’t trying to make gains you are just trying to keep muscle and get your HTPA going again so keep it fun and don’t kill yourself
You may have taken too much aromasin (stop taking it if you are still on it)…this happened to me the first time I used it, I respond very poorly to adex and letro (it takes a lot to get my estrogen down) but for some reason I over-respond to a’sin so now I only use about 10mg/d during the PCT and adjust based on what my water retention level is (I can tell pretty well now where my estrogen is based on water retention and libido so I use this as a indicator of where E levels are)…the first time i used it in PCT I used a dose similar to what you used and I bottomed out my estrogen so hard that my libido crashed…if you are also experiencing stiff/sore/achy joints and looking very dry then this is likely the cause of your libido problems…unfortunately there is no cure for this except to take aromatizing androgens which you obviously don’t want to do in PCT so you just have to wait it out (it will take a few weeks for your body to produce more aromatase and return estrogen levels to normal), the problem is made worse by the fact that your natural T is lower than normal. The good news is that your body will perceive the low estrogen levels and crank up your T production to help normalize this but like I said it as well will take a few weeks.
Don’t take any more HCG…it is very counter productive to take it during PCT because it will just push back your HTPA recovery and drag this out longer, I assume your nuts maintained their normal size during the cycle so you really shouldn’t need it. What you need is to recover your HTPA function which is what the nolva is doing. I find nolva does nothing for my recovery and clomid was only slightly better but you should probably stick with it anyways
If you can get your hands on MT-II or even better PT-141 you can give that a try…they both have a side effect of increasing sexual desire in some users. You will also get a rocking tan in the process. PT-141 is currently being studied as a sexual aid for those with low sexual desire, I know at least one guy that has used it successfully to return steroid induced decreased desire to keep things normal until he recovered (he had used deca and had a libido crash). The reason your Cialis isn’t working is that it just increases bloodflow and does nothing for desire…stack some PT-141 with cialis and you should be back to normal or better. This won’t cure your problem but will at least get you through until your body fixes the problem itself.
Two questions, what does your blood work look like? and…Are you functional, but just have no desire?
FG covered some options that will likely help you for sure. Take your age into consideration here as well…personally I think if you’re gonna start AAS later in life, then take the blast and cruise approach, and forget about recovering, if you are done with having kids and are willing to be “on” for good (or on HRT). If this is not what you would like to do, then shorten your cycle length to 8 weeks next time, or run shorties (2-4 weeks) with fast acting stuff. Length of time under suppression matters…again, especially at 45 when you are not in “prime” hormonal condition to begin with. If it were myself, I’d taper out your aromasin (don’t stop it cold) and switch from nolvadex to clomid, or preferably take both and extend your PCT time. Drop the HCG as suggested, and keep on the GH.
Give it some time, and if the low libido persists, go to your doctor!
Thanks for the last posts. I have continued the GH throughout the PCT and expect I will do 5 or 6 months total, since my research shows that you need that long to realize the best results. I will post my PCT bloodwork soon. I did the bloodwork the day after my last dose of Nolva and Aromasin so I’m not sure how “real” the numbers are. I found that the hCG used during the cycle worked really well for me and testicular size was never an issue. I have read that hCG can desensitize LH receptors and that lower doses should be used. I limited my dosages as I mentioned before. I’m actually really pleased with the gains I made and how much I’ve retained. I’ve also kept a good deal of my strength. I will say that I do have some joint issues now. Nothing I can’t tolerate though. I have considered trying more frequent, short term usage as well as staying on HRT doses (which I have done in the past) but I was hoping to get completely off between cycles. If that’s not possible, I will deal with that as well. Thanks again for your help
what did your labs say (T, free T, E2, Prolactin)?
sometimes what the doctor considers normal is pretty crap (there is a pretty big normal range). or he may think that your estrogen being a little low isn’t that big of a deal but it could be crushing your sex drive. my guess would be low E but I would need to see the numbers with the ranges your lab gave you.
one other question - you didn’t start proscar (or another DHT reducer) did you?
In my opinion GH should be part of every PCT for those who have access…my experience and that of everyone I know who has used even moderate doses like you are is that the benifit is maintenance of most if not all of the lean mass gains from a cycle…I really can’t endorse it enough.
I’ll post my labs this week. Things seem to be improving significantly. I’m thinking that after a period of hormonal rest, I may try the blast approach. My job is such that I probably shouldn’t have dramatic changes in size like I did this time. I’d also like to try to get the bodyfat under 10%. Thanks for all your input. It was really helpful.
Sounds like this could be estrogen rebound. Take 0.5mg adex now then start 0.5mg/week in EOD dosing. Use adex during PCT as well.
Aromasin does not work any better than anastrozole and can easily be more costly. We are also comparing 25mg/day vs 1-3 mg/week. In TRT settings, some have found Aromasin to be ineffective and then adex worked well. There may be some effects from variations in how some react to these drugs. We know that some require 1/4th the expected dose of adex. These over-responders might have different aromatase enzyme structures. Such individual variability might make aromasin more or less effective for some.
Aromasin is a steroidal aromatase inhibitor. Given the large doses, there might be steroidal side effects for some. Absorbs well and best with food. Liver fist pass effects and P450 enzyme pathways. Can thus reduce clearance of what estrogens remain as can anything that competes for P450 pathway metabolism.
I had some symptoms of gyno about a year ago after doing an anadrol/winnie stack which never quite went away even after the PCT. About 2 months later I started taking 20mg nolva every day to see if it would help. After a few days I felt the small lump going away but within a week and a half my sex drive had completely vanished. As soon as I stopped the Nolva, my sex drive came back about 3-4 days later.