T Nation

Sex & Society

Fellow T-Men and Vixen.
I intend this post to more or less get an idea on people’s views of the current “view” of sex and whether its just something to have as in a hookup or if it means just a lil more to you.

Here's why i ask: I am working on my PhD in criminal Psychology and one of the main areas of my reasearch is working with sexual offenders, as well as other adolescent offenders both sexual and non...In all these guys (and some gals yes) it seems very clear (esp. with the sexual offenders) that society's current approach of divorcing emotion from the act of sex contributes in large part to the serious pathology of these offenders. Even if it doesn't contribute directly to the problem, what we have is the idead of get what you want, without paying a price. If no emotion exists, the offender is able to easily rationalize what he does (in a sense, there is no conscience)..

Now, the primary purpose of sex is obviously to further the species, and of course a secondary biological purpose is physical pleasure, but without emotional bonds between the persons engaging that are more than fleeting, the stage seems to be set for serious issues down the road, either with the results of the sex or the reinforced notion that such behavior requires no emotional committment?

Thoughts please...I see this over and over again with many sex offenders but its not just them, its the adolescent offender and others like him on the way to criminality who are constantly bombarded with the media message of "get laid" but "don't care about the person you lay" or "sex at any cost"

Peace out

Hmmm… I remember several interviews with sex offenders, and they all pretty much said the same thing: it’s not a sex crime to them, but a crime of anger. Their outlet just happened to be sexual. Also, they almost 100% were sexually abused as children. I seriously doubt that the changing societal view of sex being less emotionally involving has a lot to do with sexual offenders. With all that said, yes, I do place sexual relations on a high level, not just the “hook up” sort of thing. But then again, I’m 38, and part of an the waning years of the baby boom.

i have a few views here…first ill start by letting you know that im only 20 years old, so my views are still tainted my hormones, hahah. ok, i say that sex is divided into two categories, the first being for satisfaction, the second being for love. i believe casual sex is a great way to satisfy urges, but protection is a must! my best sex has come from one night stands where both me and the girl were acting solely on our physical want for eachother. while loving sex if less satisfying physically, it is emotionally far better. i have felt guilty after “banging and leaving” girls. but loving sex furthers a relationship and makes me feel great mentally. also, one thing that i do thing needs some work is the statuatory rape laws. up here it is 18 and i know girls that are very mature physically and mentally at 16, but i cant act on my urges solely cuz of a law. they are mature enough to hold a good relationship and it would be with consent. as i see it, girls should be given a birth control implant as soon as they get their period, then teenage pregnancy wouldnt be an issue. i agree 13 is too young to have sex, but to tell you the truth, if 15 was legal, 75% of the guys on this site would take the plunge. if its consentual, i believe it should be legal. what i say may be controversial, but i feel this old puritan laws need to be broken down. why would a girl start ovulating at a certain age if she wasnt meant to have sex? wouldnt they start to ovulate at 18? so the government needs to back off a bit, at least to 16.

Look into Antisocial Personality Disorder in the DSM. I think there’s a relationship with this and what you’re talking about.

Sex offenses are seldom rooted in anything social. It’s more of a biogenic disorder coupled with a negative environment while growing up- usually abuse as a child, witnessing mother sleeping around a lot, the pairing of sex and violence etc.

And remember that rape and other sex crimes have nothing to do with physical pleasure, but rather violence. A serial rapist who’s had his penis chopped off would still rape, only he’d use a flashlight or another object.

If there’s grass on the field, play ball!

AND

Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed!

LMAO!

“while loving sex if less satisfying physically, it is emotionally far better.” spoken like someone who has never had a deep emotional commitment. what the hell are you talking about? what is less satisfying than goving your partner complete and total pleasure and fullilling their desires? you can get instant gratification from a one night stand, but NOTHING is like the mind blowing experience of being with someone who knows you inside and out and can make your brain explode. And back to the topic of this thread - I think a lack of self respect is the root of ‘fuck anything with the right number of holes’ however, sex crimes are based on violence - not attitudes toward sex. and the excuse that most offenders were abused in childhood is a non-issue. they choose to be violent

IMHO views on sex alter with age, early on it is pleasure only, then once a relationship develops it is love/emotional, the ‘furthering the species’ is a more specific period in the relationship. This was the case for me and will obviously differ for cases where having children os a problem etc. As for the attitude to sex from offenders, it is only a tool/vehicle to dominate and have power/control. In many cases the offender gets very little pleasure from the physical act it is the psycological stimulus that keeps them going.

Assuming we as a species continue to prosper, emotions will some day be eliminated as our brains develop. The vast majority of people I know with genius IQs as well as extremely refined minds and zero physical brain defects are very unemotional in comparison to the typical person. The only I’ve been able to observe from them is frustration at the typical person’s stupidity. Eventually that will be gone, but at least not for 30,000 years or so. (Assuming we -don’t- genetically engineer ourselves -which we will-) And who knows if we’ll last that long considering that the last asteroid that missed us was only 500,000 miles away, Yellowstone National Park is due to erupt any time now (the entire park is a super volcano), and our government is allowing volatile nations to have the ability to create nuclear weapons.

In other words: Who gives a fuck?

Got ya beat man. If she’s old enough to crawl she’s already in the right position. And…Old enough to pee old enough for me. Alright that’s sick. But hahah anyway.

But for the casual sex thing…I think with all the disease out there you have to be out of you mind. :slight_smile:

i still think that sex with a one night partner is better than relationship sex with emotional committment. i say this because often sex with the same girl over a long period of time is boring. no matter how many different positions or different outfits you try, the result is the same, the girl still looks the same and sounds the same. no matter what kind of panties you put on, whats under them always looks the same and that gets rid of the whole surprise/excitement. would i rather watch a rerun of the 2001 superbowl everyday, or see the upcoming 2002 superbowl which is new, hmmmm…yeah, the 2002 superbowl. no matter how many commercials or new commentary you put on the 2001 superbowl, there is no surprise, there is no changing it, its not as exciting as the new.

On a semi-related note: Something I said that pissed off my girlfriend: Rape is a viable means of reproduction for the extreamly ugly.

Let your mind bake a little on that one before you comment. :wink:

kain - as i said ‘spoken like someone who has never had a deep emotional commitment.’ let me give you a few examples… you are with your one night stand and you want her to do down on you, but she’s not into that so you don’t get what you really want. same situation in a healthy realtionship, she may not want to do it, but does anyway because she knows you like it and that you sometimes do things that you don’t want to do just for her pleasure. and another example - a long term partner learns your ‘buttons’ she knows exactly what to do and how to do it to make your head spin. no one nighter can learn that in the course of a few hours. it only gets boreing if you LET it get boring… talk to a few couples in healthy relationships. infact, ironbabe will back me up on this i’m sure…and she’s been married for a few years. I’ve slept around and I’ve been in long term realtionships… I’ll take the latter anyday.

You need some Androsol dude.

girls just dont wanna hear that a guy will choose having sex with 5 different girls once then the same girl 5 times. so far i have never met a girl that wouldnt go down, so im not worried about that. why do you think guys cheat a lot on their wives, its because they have been with the same person so many times. its not that sex in a relationship has to be boring, its just that the thought of exploring new territory is sooo strong. not every one night stand is good, but in generally i perfer them because nothing excites me more than not knowing how a girl is going to act in bed, look like naked, and what she sounds/tastes/smells like. Once you find out all that, what is there to look forward too? getting off again? i can do that myself anytime and the girl is gonna feel exactly the same again. i guess its that guys find more excitement in the thrill of sex then the actual act. if they didnt, divorce rates would be far lower.

T People
Surprise surprise, I knew this one would get some interesting and varied responses:
First off, let me just make a few points to argue what i have see, and believe me, I put as much research (actually more) into this than i do into the bb’ing literature, so while i am not the end all be all on the subject, i do know some shit, and I actually do work with both types of offenders:

First off: contrary to popular media and other textbooks, sexual offending is not solely motivated by power, hatred, anger, and control albeit, in some types of offenders they are…what we see now, and where the literature on this topic is going is that they have profound intimacy, empathy (victim specific) and other EMOTIONAL difficulties, which may be the result of distorted or non-existent attachments in their childhood

2) many sex offender are not SEXUALLY ABUSED...go figure, old myths die hard in the literature here as they do bb'ing literature.

3)Certainly social indoctrination and the whole “get laid” mentality are not soley responsible for the offender(s) becomming the way they are, but they are a critical peace in the ontogeny, as well as the maintenance of the offending patterns…

  1. In the other post i made on girls and asshole guys, a respondent duly noted that a girl may date an asshole guy simply to “piss daddy off” or the woman’s parents may have something to do with why they go for assholes…now this applies to boyz/men as well, and I think you are going to find out it is a big key in the picture…girls/guys who don’t get emotional security don’t learn how to be intimate secure etc…so for them, sex is pleasure only…they can’t be emotional becuase they become vulnerable (for example, were a pedophile to try and have normal adult relations with a woman, he becomes very vulnerable to rejection and emotional havoc

I could go on and on, but bottom line..don't you think the current attitude at least NAmerica has on "just get laid at any cost" is a little screwed?

Peace out

Believe it or not, I prefer to be in a monogomous relationship with someone I trust and care for. I’ve had a few flings, and sure, I either felt guilty afterward or sick (depending on if the chick wasn’t all that hot), but flings are good for releasing pent-up sexual frusturation. And of course, they are highly exciting.

Can you have that in a relationship? Sure, but it can get old after a while. It’s true, guys will always want a piece of someone else’s poontang pie, even if they are with a hella hot honey. It’s all about the excitement and the difference between your mate and the fling. Taste, smell and looks all come into play. But I can honestly say that I can be with someone and not cheat and have a great sex life. Will I still look or wonder about someone else? Sure, at times.

But like Michelle said, in a relationship, you can experience things that you may not get with a fling because of the fact that you trust and love each other (or whatever else you want to call it). So you may even get lucky and have a girl who's down for anal! But I'm just rambling now, as I have no idea how this fits into the posted message! LOL!

You, my friend, have a lot of growing up to do. “girls just dont wanna hear that a guy will choose having sex with 5 different girls once then the same girl 5 times.” Oh really? Some guys, believe it or not, would prefer a loving, stable relationship to a one-night roll in the hay. We’re called “grown-ups”. And guys don’t cheat because they’ve been with the same person “so many times”, they cheat on their wives because the idea of fidelity and commitment has become too “inconvenient” for our “if it feels good, do it” society. You also wrote ”not every one night stand is good, but in generally i perfer them because nothing excites me more than not knowing how a girl is going to act in bed, look like naked, and what she sounds/tastes/smells like. Once you find out all that, what is there to look forward too? getting off again? i can do that myself anytime.” Get used to self service pal, because as you age, you’re going to find less and less women looking for a good time and more seeking a relationship. The things that we in committed relationships “look forward” to are buying houses, cooking for each other, having kids, and the knowledge that another human being is so connected, so devoted, and so committed to you and ONLY you that they will spend the rest of their existence on Earth in exclusive physical and spiritual communion. And THAT, my friend, is the secret to truly mind-blowing sex. If you never experience this wonderful feeling, then I pity you for your ignorance.

I don’t think society’s views on relationships have changed very much. Restrictive times and more liberal times usually take turns. And the likes of the people don’t seem to have changed much over centuries. The only difference is that sexual matters are discussed openly in more liberal times where they tend to be kept secret in restrictive times. Could it rather be that our ‘caring society’ takes the fear from potential rapists and actually invites them
to live out their dark desires, by giving them the impression that they are the victims rather than offenders. Just a thought.

There is having sex and then there is making love. Having sex is banging/fucking/whatver you want to call it. No emotions involved. Making love is giving yourself to the person completely: mind, body, heart and soul. I prefer the latter.

I’m 21 years old, and a virgin. I obviously (well, maybe it isn’t so obvious, but I have had the opportunity with non-skanks) believe that it is something important. I plan on waiting until marriage. I take issue with a few points here, however. First of all, rape is many times about sexual gratification. Much as someone steals a bicycle or car (“steal” was the original meaning of rape, btw. See “the rape of persephone,” depicting Hades and Persephone en route to the underworld), someone that is denied sexual gratification may believe it is his “right” and simply take it. This is, in my opinion, the reason for the large number of date rapes. Serial rapists that intentionlly seek women out to victimize, however, are operating from a different psychological mechanism.
Also, in response to the comment about high IQs and a lack of emotion, that is completely incorrect. While many intelligent people (usually of mathematical or scientific bent) may appear to be unemotional, they usually are using this as a self-defense mechanism. Their passions are channeled into their work. Oftentimes, they exhibit symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder. Artists, writers, and geniuses on the other side of the coin tend to show signs of bipolar disorder (commonly known as being manic-depressive). Many psychologists reason that the works of great minds are the result of searches to end pain; they find some comfort through their work, just as many of you all find comfort in lifting weights. It is, after all, just another form of sublimation.