Sex in relationships

What a load of shit Patricia. Sorry but I must protest. A woman is at no greater risk of any of the things you stated in fact she has more rights than the man especially after the fact. Get your shit straight. While it is true the woman can get pregnant she also has the choice about what to do about that unlikely event. I say unlikely because anyone with half a brain can make birth control fool proof. If you take the fact that the pill is 99.8% effective (if used properly) then add a condom with spermicidal lube 98% effective =100% effective. Men are also just as susceptible to STDS as women. In fact men are more likely to show symptoms while women are more likely to be carriers and not know it. STDs are also transmitted via oral contact. As such any sexual encounter even an innocent kiss can carry with it disease. After the deed is done men have zero rights to the consequences. Men can end up paying for the rest of their lives. What the woman decides is final and it doesn’t matter what he feels about the situation.

Actually, I have to agree with Patricia. Women are much more ‘at risk’ than men regarding sex. It is actually much easier for women to catch STD’s (due to the normal tearing of the vaginal lining that happens during every sexual encounter). Yes, men often have symptoms where women don’t and that makes it worse, she can be rendered sterile because she doesn’t know she’s sick. if she gets pregnant and he skips town (or doesn’t) and she chooses abortion then it is her brain that suffers - his too maybe, but not the same. There is also always the ever present double standard of who ‘should’ be more experienced.

I have seen SO many posts on this forum advising men to dump their partner because of sexual problems. There are medical reasons people can't have sex, would you dump someone because they were unable to perform? It just seems very shallow to me.

I'm with a great guy who understands my reasons to wait, and respects them. Sure, we both get frusterated from time to time, but since we intend to be together permanently whats a few months or even a year compared to the rest of our lives?

These are some interesting responses. My husband said he was actually attracted to me BECAUSE I didn’t want to have sex until marriage. As a matter of fact before we were officially dating one of his old army friends came to visit where we both worked. Upon finding out that he and I weren’t dating the friend asked if he would set me up with him. My future husband’s response was “No, she not that type, she’s the type to marry.” Now, we didn’t end up waiting until marriage, we both gave in about a week or two before we got married. I do wish we had waited, but it was very difficult. Knowing I found the man I would spend my life with made it very hard not to give myself to him and take the relationship to the next level. Now, if a guy is just “dating” and not looking for MS. right, I can see why he wouldn’t wait.

Michelle, Ironbabe and whoever else: there are guys out there who do not think along “double-standard” lines. A lot of them. If I were a woman, I think I would focus on dating those men rather than complaining about the ones who are still back in the Stone Age. Times are changing, if slowly; let’s have a little credit where it’s due. C’mon, now. Play fair.

Also, I have had personal experience with the abortion thing, and there is no way in hell anyone can tell me that women's and men's rights are equal on this issue. I and a great female friend of mine slept together for a week or so. It was a very temporary thing, very mutally desired, a lot of fun for both of us. I was in the military at the time, and shipped out for 6 months on a ship in the Pacific. I wrote a couple of times; no response. When I got back, basically I couldn't get a hold of her. Didn't hear from her for 5-6 years. All of a sudden she calls out of the blue, says she wants to talk, blah blah blah.

Well, you know what happened. She had gotten pregnant and aborted the child. My child. Now, I'm not saying that she should have had the child. And I'm not saying that if I had known about it I would have even wanted her to have the child. But it seems very odd to me that two people can go into making a (potential) baby but only one gets to say, unilaterally, this baby will or will not be born. I'm also not saying that the man should have as much say about the birth as the woman - obviously, it's not his body. But he should have some say. And we don't get that. But when the issue of birth control comes up, oh, THEN it's "both parties' responsibility" etc. etc.

How anyone can look at this situation and say that men's and women's rights are equal is beyond me. Granted, the biological risk is unequal vis-a-vis pregnancy. But the "parental" risk is equally skewed - the other way. This was potentially MY CHILD, just as much as it was hers. But I had no say at all in what happened to it...

I have trained myself out of needing sex, so if the girl wants to wait and I like her, then I wait…No big deal. But I am married, so sex is a non-issue. I am done with the games.

My wife came from a culture that strongly believes that women should marry virgins. However this culture accepts and encourages the groom to obtain sexual release with “professional women” and tramps. Also, for those that can afford it, this culture promotes hiring a well versed “professional woman” to teach sexuality to the bride so she’ll now what to expect and what to do during the honeymoon. I developed such a strong emotional and spiritual bond with my lady that I could have been celibate until the wedding night. Anyway, since we married we have more than made up for the lost time.

Yes, Char-Dawg, men should have just as much say in a child entering the world. However, this discussion should be made PRIOR to creating the child. If two people who are engaging in sex are not ready and prepared together to deal with the possibility of another life being created by their actions, they should not be engaging in premarital sex. And, although both might agree on abortion, the physical and emotional toll on a woman is probably a great deal higher than on a man. After all, she is the one who physically undergoes the process and all the hormonal changes that go along with being pregnant and then not being pregnant all of a sudden.
If you are ready to engage in sex with another person, you should be prepared to deal with the possibility of pregnancy (regardless of birth control, because really, no method except abstinence is REALLY 100% fool proof!), and have that discussion together before you have sex. That way, should the pregnancy occur, nobody is left out in the cold wondering…
This is the ideal. The reality is that nobody really thinks about it beforehand and then is traumatized after the fact.

Char Dawg - That is aweful! Yes, as a man you have a right to say what happens to your child. Unfortunately, the woman has to carry it for 9 months and usually ends up the primary care giver for at least a few months after that. I am not saying at ALL that a woman has the right to terminate a pregnancy without consulting the man involved.


I can honestly say, however, that I don’t have any idea what a solution might be for that issue. I was not raised in a ‘sex is wrong’ family. I was raised to be responsible however, and I have - finally - begun to be that way. As in, no sex until I am prepared for the possible outcome… a child.

And you are correct, we must give credit where credit is due. Though honestly, men who are truly without the double standard are few and far between. I'm glad to hear you are one of them.

i am still pretty novice on the sex scene: i don’t sleep with anything that walks. still, at 23 years old i regret over 80 percent of the men i chose to sleep with, and since that total number is quite low at this time in my life, i wish i had saved those experiences for someone in the future who cares about me instead of believing or listening to the luring bullshit lines i heard(i.e… you’re so beautiful, bla bla, i love you… all the way to if you don’t sleep with me i will break up with you…) but you learn from these experiences and that’s why i dont’ see any point right now in sleeping with anyone if they aren’t going to be around for more than a long time with me. sex is not just a physical act to me, it is a lot more than that, and if my ideals are not that fit into today’s societal trend i am perfectly accepting of that.

Bionic, I fully agree with you on the regret thing. I too regret having slept with the men I slept with before my husband. None of them were really satisfying, none really cared about whether I was satisfied, and in retrospect I realize how really empty those times were. My husband, on the other hand, has been quite different and I honestly wish that all my experience had been only with him. And, to add to that, once we were married he insisted that I stop taking the pill (because of possible future side effects and harm to me). Once we had all the children we wanted HE took the initiative to have a vasectomy so that I wouldn’t have to take the pill or insert an IUD or take a shot (poor Ironbabe!) for the next 20 or more years. He figured I had gone through enough with the pregnancies and now it was his turn to do something. What a guy! As we have aged, perhaps the frequency of love-making has decreased, but it is more and more satisfying because of our total committment to one another.

sunflower, someone is out there like that for me too. you’re lucky you found him, so just know that. i’m just doing my thing until the right one comes along, and i keep on smiling knowing i’m doing the right thing.

To GM: Thank you for agreeing with my basic point. I also agree with yours (that both parties should know what’s going on before engaging in sex), but I think that having a meaningful discussion about it before hitting the sheets would probaby kill whatever fun and sponteneity existed. It’s kind of like that old Saturday Night Live skit, where they roasted Mill College’s new (at the time) student conduct rules, wherein every time a guy wanted to move things to the next level with a woman he had to “clearly state” his intentions and receive her “explicit verbal approval” before going on. So SNL had this hilarious scene where a couple was sitting on a bed, kissing, and the guy pulls back and says, “I’d really like to put my tongue in your mouth”, and she says, “Oh, yes, baby!”, and then a few seconds later he says, “Would you mind if I undid your bra?”, and she’s like, “Yes, I give you explicit permission to do that!” and so on.

What I would like to see is a socio-political climate in which the rights of father (vis-a-vis their children) are as deeply ingrained as the rights of mothers are. Where everyone already knows the score, as it were, just like everyone already knows that, for example, you get fired if you don't show up for work. Bad analogy, maybe, but you see where I'm coming from. As it is, I honestly don't think that my friend gave even a little thought to what I might feel about the whole thing. It was all about her. (And like I said, this is a great woman that we're talking about...)

To Michelle: Thank you for the support, and for being honest enough to admit that you don't have a solution. Frankly, I don't either. But my original post was simply meant to point out the fact that men can suffer from pregnancy-based problems, just like women do. (We just don't get as much press.) Not trying to make a point about who suffers more or anything like that; I think it's largely case-by-case. But there is another side to the whole thing.

As for the stone-agers...I really don't know why any woman would put up with someone like that in the first place. If I were a woman, I certainly wouldn't. Hey, you guys have the power: breed the fuckers out of existence!

But that’s precisely my point too–that spontaneity should not exist prior to a true committment between two people. Of course it would be ludicrous to stop all the action on the sheets to have a “what shall we do if we make a baby discussion?” But, if two people engaging in “sheet-play” are truly committed to one another before this play even commences then the issue isn’t going to be as big of a problem. I guess what I’m really getting at is the avoidance of promiscuity and all the issues that result from it. If any one person engaging in sexual activity with another isn’t able to confront the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy or STD, then they shouldn’t be engaging in sexual activity with that person.Period. End of discussion. And if you are going to mess around, then be prepared to deal with the consequences, either on your own, or together with that person. I realize this rarely happens. We are a society that usually does not think about our actions in advance. We only worry after the fact. And that is especially true for younger people who never feel that consequences will ever touch them–they feel they are invincible and infertile and this could never happen to them (especially if they are using condoms, or the pills, or whatever). But it does and then they can’t handle it. And our media does nothing to help them out. Sexuality is all out there and it sends them the wrong message. Don’t get me wrong. I am no prude when it comes to these things, but I honestly feel that waiting to “play in the sheets” never killed anyone and that it shouldn’t be the center of every single encounter between men and women.
I really feel for you, by the way, that things with your friend turned out the way they did. You definitely should’ve been told about the baby, and you definitely should’ve had a say in things. In her defense, however, perhaps knowing that you were going to be away for so long had something to do with her decision. I don’t know. Men should be completely involved in fatherhood, from beginning to end. The unfortunate thing is, not that many feel the same way you do and are very quick to renege on their responsibilities with their children.

Yeah, I agree with you on most of your points. Especially the one about the media being irresponsible. Actually, it’s more than just irresponsible, it’s criminal IMO. There is definitely a culture change that needs to take place in America.

In defense of my gender, however, I do feel compelled to say a couple of things. Yes, there are a lot of guys who can't handle the idea of fatherhood and who bail if their girlfriends get pregnant and have kids. On the other hand, once a child is born the legal deck is stacked against men (all men) from the start. First, overwhelmingly, courts place children (regardless of age) with their mothers. The only time this doesn't happen is in extreme circumstances like the mom's a crack whore and the father is a pillar of the community. Second, if the mother wants to, she can demand money (and get it) for as long as she wants, and at the same time bar the father from seeing his child, or set such restrictions on "visitation" that basically it amounts to the same thing. Think about it: if you were a guy, why should you pay full-time (generally significantly more than half) child-support but only be allowed to see your child on weekends? Doesn't seem fair, does it?

Not to say that this is the whole story. But my original point was that the whole "women suffer more than men when someone gets pregant" isn't quite as cut and dried as the feminist lobby would have everyone believe.

Finally, you said: "If any one person engaging in sexual activity with another isn't able to confront the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy or STD, then they shouldn't be engaging in sexual activity with that person.Period. End of discussion. And if you are going to mess around, then be prepared to deal with the consequences, either on your own, or together with that person". I couldn't agree more. (Except for the "on your own" part. You can deal with an STD on your own, but not a child. Sorry. Far as I'm concerned, women don't have that right.) But here again, I was ready, willing and able - and never got the chance to deal with anything at all. I think that this sort of thing probably happens to more men than is generally acknowledged (if it hadn't been for her calling me up half a decade later I'd never have known), and again, the problem lies with the attitude(s) that society has inculcated in women over the past couple of decades. "My body, my choice" should be modified to something like: "My body, with a significant addition; my choice, with a significant addition." That's probably not good enough, actually, but it would be a step in the right direction.

Hahaha isn’t it nice to be having this private little discussion? Anyways, yes, I do agree that men often get the short end of the stick when it comes to visitation and child support. Usually we only hear about the ones who DON’T want to help out or be involved. When I said “on your own”, it was with the meaning that the father would not want to be involved in an unwanted pregnancy. My sister-in-law is a case in point. The fellow wanted nothing to do with her or the child as soon as he found out she was pregnant. He also told his parents he would never speak to them anymore if they had anything to do with their grandchild. So, she has raised this beautiful daughter on her own and the dad has never once come into the picture. And, no, she has never asked for child support or anything else like that.
Fathers are incredibly imporant to children and we adults do the children an incredible disservice when we try to limit the contact. As for paying for child support–I honestly do think that fathers (or mothers) owe that to the other parent. But, if the father wants to see the child more than on weekends, they should be allowed. I think that if the parties involved talk it out they can come to amicable situations. A friend of mine alternates weeks with her ex. Luckily they both live in the same school district, so the kids do not have to switch schools every second week. She wasn’t keen on the idea in the beginning because when they were married she was the one who always had to organize everything for the family. However, it seems to be working well and everyone is happy with the situation.
And on that note, I honestly believe (and I think I remember someone saying something to this effect on this forum somewhere) that if people waited with their sexual encounters until they were truly committed to one another (ie. married), then there would be fewer cases of divorce. Can’t really say why I believe that, but I do. Have a nice day!

I’m down with waiting.

Wha Wha Wha Wha. Bla Bla Bla. What the fuck? I need a virgin because anything else lacks appropriate purity. Poindexter – do actually have a dick? Ok, I haven’t been posting here for long so perhaps I lack credibility, but any guy who wishes to benefit from his partners experience but doesn’t want her to have any experience, or any guy who wants a virg but can’t stand that he isn’t getting’ none…… Dumb ass. Stand the fuck up and act like a T-Man, be accountable for yourself and worry less about her. Look at Michelle, been called a whore on this site, she obviously isn’t and has taken responsibility for herself……more T than many of her male counterparts. If your girl gets pregnant (I think I said this already) Wha Wha Wha Wha. Bla Bla Bla. What the fuck? Stand the up and rejoice in your blessings, pathetic turd……

My money is on the Michelle’s of the world. She has found somebody who makes her feel something, kinda like dizzy form deads, and she feels the burn to come back to that same source for more because it makes her feel bigger, stronger, better. Isn’t that what its all about???

Yeah, feels like we’re alone on a couch somewhere, curled up with wine glasses, having our own private little chat.

Hah!

Maybe your sister-in-law and I should get together. Might be able to achieve some sort of karmic balance...

Nice talking to you, too. Have a good one!

Chalk up a point for DDT, he gets it.

Personally I like a woman who knows how to please a man. I.E. you have to convince them that giving head isn’t a sin, swallowing is better than spitting, doggie style face down ass up all that good shit. Maybe I’m just a freak but I like a woman that is comfortable with herself and her sexuallity. Out.