Setting the Priorities Straight

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]Aizen wrote:

Questions:

  • What amount of protein/calories should I aim for pre/during/post work out? (found this in the first article, about 90g of carbs and 45g of protein) (basically 40oz of choco milk haha)

  • Are potatoes one of the better choices if I’m looking for some sort of glycogen addition in comparison to breads? (i figured calorically and on a cut they are probably more preferable)

  • I will post up my next week’s grocery list so you guys can tell me if I understand everything prior to this post’s questions. Or at least CLOSE to everything.
    [/quote]

  1. i would say something like a shake before and a shake after (50 grams) would be enough but its more important to make sure you hit your total each day

  2. yes potatoes, sweet potatoes, rice oatmeal are all better than bread[/quote]

In response to #1: I figured it was something like that.

#2: mmmmmmm. (half irish) I LOVE POTATOES haha.

I would focus more on the Roussell/Shugart article, the Berardi one is more for theory, this advice is tweaked to what you told us, I just wanted you to have an idea of where it would be optimal to place carbs.

A banana or two plus a scoop of whey in 2-3 cups water with 1/4 teaspoon salt is a superior periworkout strategy to the chocolate milk and would cost around the same (chocolate milk is high in sugar, not what you want). I would eat a banana before, start drinking the shake and finish it during the workout, have another banana after, then a meal 60 min or so after with some form of carbs from rice, oats, quinoa, or sweet potato (this would include meat too in case it isn’t obvious). I base this recommendation on your fat loss goal, I think it is superior to chocolate milk. About a half cup of oats, rice, or 7-8oz potato (uncooked measure) is what you are looking for.

MAF14 has already answered your question on potatoes, bread sucks. Dead serious.

As for potassium, if you eat potatoes and spinach as well as fruits and other veggies, you will be doing all right.

Meals outside of training and post workout:

Animal protein: 7-8oz raw meat (cooked of course - you buy it raw, so that’s why I give the raw weight)
healthy fats: 20g per meal, how you get this depends on how much fat is in your meat
veggies: spinach, cabbage, other greens should be the base, add accent veggies for taste
fruit: a serving or two of berries

Postworkout meal:

Animal Protein: 7-8oz raw meat
starchy carbs: 1/2 cup rice, oats or 8oz potato
fats: a bit for taste
veggies: as above
fruit can be skipped here as your carbs will be taken care of

Basically the only difference is you have carbs and don’t add lots of fat. Other meals you would add say an ounce and a half of nuts or a tablespoon olive oil or even a bit of butter. For the lower carb meals you could totally get by with something like chicken legs in the future, they are usually cheaper.

What MAF14 means is what is considered “healthy” is rarely so, it is code for low fat, which for most people is neither healthy or conducive to fatloss.

Cool to all of the past few comments.

I’ll be trying this stuff out with baby steps, starting with post/during work out shake/milk or something. Buying some protein mix etc. is a little out of my reach, but I’ll be workin a lot of hours this next week so probably soon I’ll be available to it.

I’m going to pretend its tuesday (when i work out next) and give a run through of what I’d eat that day if I’m hearing you guys correctly;

Breakfast:
2 4 oz. chicken breast
3-4 leaves off of the cabbage
a few strawberries (3 or 4)

Pre-work out:
(for now) Skim Milk (about 40 oz.)

Post Work out meal:
8 oz. steak (diced)
8 oz. potato (probably fried in very light layer of oil)
spinach (diced, cut, perhaps steamed, and layered over steak)

Dinner:
8 oz. pork tenderloin
steamed broccoli
1 banana 2 strawberries a few blue berries

Gives me about 200g of protein and around 2200kcal, so maybe add a little more potatoe or some rice on the post work out.

I understand sugars from the milk are a problem, I will focus on this eventually. Right now, again, going straight from fast food to this, I think is pretty good.

When I do buy the whey stuff, I’ll be set.

Some final questioning:

Is any of that protein stuff at GNC any different right now, at my level? I mean micro/macro don’t really matter to me at the moment, so I’m guessing the 20 dollar stuff of whey protein is the same as the 60 dollar junk?

With the protein anything more than $30 for 2 pounds is bullshit. Any compounds claimed usually are not in enough amounts, and a quality whey is all you need. Some of the $20 ones are a little suspect as there is not enough margin. GNC is a jack anyhow, I would rather shop at walmart for protein before I went to GNC. Look for 100% whey, preferably an isolate that is not ion exchange (will have some variation of filtered in the name).

Here is the Biotest Whey:
http://www.T-Nation.com/store/supplements/grow-whey-protein.jsp

If you live in the lower 48, you could get Grow! Whey from this site, shipping is free. Your next best bet if you aren’t going to purchase here is a mix your own website referred to here as TP (the T stands for opposite of false and the P for protein). I didn’t post the link because they frown on that, but a couple writers here were previously associated with them and one of the operators of the company has been interviewed on this site. They carry 3 different filtered whey isolates, any one will do. Though if you are only looking to get only one tin to start, I would suggest the Grow! Whey due to free shipping (assuming you are the lower 48).

Other than that if you are looking to save money, online is your best bet as costs are lower than stores. Think about your options and check back with us if you need feedback on another brand.

You look like you have an excellent diet template going there to start. Could you give us an idea of your fat intake, sources and amounts. The cuts of meat you are eating are quite lean.

Right now based on what you posted, I got you at 185g animal protein, maybe 195g total, around 150g carbs, and 50-60g fat (could vary depending on how much fat is used for cooking and steak cut). That is 1900 Kcal. If your fat intake is more like 90g, then you are right where you want to be caloric and fat intake wise. At that point the only tweaks are fish oil and creatine this would run you around $15 a month tops, something to think about after you get your whey.

Congrats on your effort to overhaul your diet.

[quote]Aizen wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]ironwill68 wrote:
As far as Protein goes, you don’t have to do the Protein shake thing. I think its easier to drink a Protein shake than prepare chicken steak or whatever. I know people may disagree with me, but you don’t need 200 mg Protein a day. Unless maybe your are an Elite athlete training with max poundages, or pro bodybuilder with high % of muscle mass would you need something in that range.

The best advice is the simplest… train hard and eat as healthy as possible.[/quote]

you are 245 and a what BF?

no you dont NEED 200 grams (not mg’s) but going above i can almost for sure say it would be beneficial

200 grams is by no means a lot either…

also eating “as healthy as possible” is almost never the best way to improve body composition[/quote]

Mind explaing that last quote?[/quote]

what i mean is there is a big difference between eating “healthy” and eating to get jacked/ripped/huge or whatever

dont get me wrong, you can eat healthy (relatively) and be big and strong but one is going to come at the price of the other

that is not to say that bodybuilders, or their diets, are UNhealthy but i think you know what i am getting at

Thanks for the congrats, it was difficult until I finally had a nest egg of wealth I could spend on my diet, and the overhaul is going very well. I’m constantly full and I find it VERY difficult to meet even 2400kcal a day haha.

Anytime I cook chicken, I use a little mayo to either dip it in or “glaze” over it

Anytime I cook steak I rub it down in some vegetable oil or virgin olive oil and add pepper and salt

Anytime I cook pork I use a brown sugar/bbq sauce mixture with a little mustard and cayan pepper

I always over estimate my intake from being so paranoid about under estimating it, I estimate high on veggies and fruits because I haven’t looked them up on fitday or anything like that yet. :smiley:

I’ll look into Grow! Whey, free shipping sounds awesome hahaha.

I’ll return if I have any other questions, glad I got my diet down to a “T” basically!

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]Aizen wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]ironwill68 wrote:
As far as Protein goes, you don’t have to do the Protein shake thing. I think its easier to drink a Protein shake than prepare chicken steak or whatever. I know people may disagree with me, but you don’t need 200 mg Protein a day. Unless maybe your are an Elite athlete training with max poundages, or pro bodybuilder with high % of muscle mass would you need something in that range.

The best advice is the simplest… train hard and eat as healthy as possible.[/quote]

you are 245 and a what BF?

no you dont NEED 200 grams (not mg’s) but going above i can almost for sure say it would be beneficial

200 grams is by no means a lot either…

also eating “as healthy as possible” is almost never the best way to improve body composition[/quote]

Mind explaing that last quote?[/quote]

what i mean is there is a big difference between eating “healthy” and eating to get jacked/ripped/huge or whatever

dont get me wrong, you can eat healthy (relatively) and be big and strong but one is going to come at the price of the other

that is not to say that bodybuilders, or their diets, are UNhealthy but i think you know what i am getting at[/quote]

well, eating the way I do now, I could understand bodybuilder’s rigourous diets etc. and I also understand why power lifters end up eating like shit.

To eat 10,000 calories ALL clean would be near impossible, especially when the diet is high protein haha. I would not want to be that guy, lol.

I also understand that to be “fit” does not mean you have to be “healthy”, same with getting big muscles or whatever. (steroids, fast food for higher caloric content, etc. etc.)

If you eat this clean, don’t worry to much about calories or overestimating. The food quality means way more in this range of intake. Especially as you progress, you may find the need to make sure fat hits the 80-90g range. Measure it closely, you will only need to do it a couple times before you know exactly how much that is. After that, just keep plugging away.

Sorry, I’m still sort of confused about the fat. Why do I need fat? well, not why do I “need fat”, why would I have it gauged just as efficiently as my protein?

Recovery reasons? Processing reasons?

[quote]Aizen wrote:
Sorry, I’m still sort of confused about the fat. Why do I need fat? well, not why do I “need fat”, why would I have it gauged just as efficiently as my protein?

Recovery reasons? Processing reasons?[/quote]

hormonal responses

Twofold, if it is too low, your protein intake will be over 40%, when you go over the 35-40% range for extended periods, you tend to start oxidizing it, rather than it contributing to protein turnover in your body. Second, there are hormonal benefits (testosterone mainly) to having fat consumption at this slightly higher level - you may find it is already there and thus no changes needed. Also in the off chance it is higher than you want (I doubt this is the case) it is lots of calories. But, basically yes and yes, recovery and processing reasons.

Remember, we are getting fine grained at this point, but it still important to know +/- 10g your intake. It probably would not hurt you at first to be slightly lower, but as you progress, you will likely need that intake, else your calories will be in the 1800-1900 range, not 2200. For a dude your size this is quite low.

As I say, getting to be nit picking, but best to know now, makes future adjustments easier too. Anyhow, it looks great, you are asking all the right questions to boot so I am confident you will progress well, your attitude is also excellent - I wouldn’t have bothered this much otherwise.

Thanks and thanks.

I figured a majority of this was nit picking, I plan to get used to this “three square meals a day” thing and eating healthy first.

I ate a 4 oz. steak, cherry tomatoes, and two glasses of milk for breakfast and was stuffed until I was done working out haha, so I have some room to “grow”.

Idk, it’s like living in a completely different world when you switch from soda and fast food to milk, water, and healthy foods.

I’ll start monitoring my fat intake/ watching it, just to see where it lands on the average day. Thanks for all the tips, I think I’m basically set for now.

[quote]Peter Orban wrote:
your attitude is also excellent - I wouldn’t have bothered this much otherwise.[/quote]

true. normally at this point in a thread the OP says something like “oh this wont work because x/y/z” then goes back to his/her old ways

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]Peter Orban wrote:
your attitude is also excellent - I wouldn’t have bothered this much otherwise.[/quote]

true. normally at this point in a thread the OP says something like “oh this wont work because x/y/z” then goes back to his/her old ways[/quote]

Ha. No, I’ve never been like that even when I couldn’t buy my own groceries. I would always do the best with what I had, and move on from there.

And I don’t really believe the sugar thing about milk or the amount of fats I should have in a day, but then again, I don’t beleive linear progression won’t happen forever, either.

I think those people who say “this won’t work” forget the reason they were talking to those people in the first place, and the reason I have been asking questions;

  1. You don’t understand shit.

  2. You don’t KNOW shit. That’s why you asked.

That’s my attitude to diet, training, and, really, anything in life I have questions about.