T Nation

Session Times

Sorry, but I am somewhat confused on this.
I understand that what you write for 1 person, may not be appliacable to another. So, I’ll just ask.
Sessions should be 30-45 minutes including warmups?
I take 10-20 minutes of stretching, situps, jumping, setting up the rack, some techniclal work with bar on cleans, front squat, and overhead squat.

Some days more stretching etc, some not. Even if i didnt do the cleans etc, it would be the same time.
then 1 set of the movement with just the bar for a few reps.
After that I start my session with “warmup” lifts in the movement of the session, and onward. This lasts 30-45 minutes. The quadruple squat layer is longer.
Overall it’s about 60 minutes more or less.

  1. Is this “too much”?
  2. I will be adding the dips and pullups after each session. How should i account for this in my time?
  3. Loaded Carries- You have them in a few threads. Apparently, they are important. As in doing them frequently.
    a) Should i add them in?
    b) If so, how often? And, what about the time factor?
  4. In my gym, it takes a fair amount of time to just set up and break down the equipment for the session. I do not count that as “session time”

In the same boat with you Domcib… my warm-ups are usually a good 10-15 minutes then a 30-40 minute workout. I also find that the Quadruple Layers take me longer: @ 40-45 minutes even with quick rests… I must admit I do have a long Max Ramp Layer as I start at the barbell and work my way up to a 3RM, 2RM, or 1RM.

I am a very slow activator so I need that long ramp especially when layering high pulls, front squats from pins, savickas presses, and these days Muscle Snatches. When and if I perform a breviated warm-up and/or Max Ramp Layer I fail to reach my known 1-3RM loadings by a good 5-10% and then my Clusters Layer or Positional Strength Layer ends up being a disaster as well. I guess we are just old and need a longer warm-up period???

[quote]Ricochet wrote:
In the same boat with you Domcib… my warm-ups are usually a good 10-15 minutes then a 30-40 minute workout. I also find that the Quadruple Layers take me longer: @ 40-45 minutes even with quick rests… I must admit I do have a long Max Ramp Layer as I start at the barbell and work my way up to a 3RM, 2RM, or 1RM.

I am a very slow activator so I need that long ramp especially when layering high pulls, front squats from pins, savickas presses, and these days Muscle Snatches. When and if I perform a breviated warm-up and/or Max Ramp Layer I fail to reach my known 1-3RM loadings by a good 5-10% and then my Clusters Layer or Positional Strength Layer ends up being a disaster as well. I guess we are just old and need a longer warm-up period???[/quote]

i’m with you on that riccochet. I need the stretching/activation so i dont get an injury. My body isn’t even awake yet when i get to the gym. I must say that the few jumps i do, help a lot! i feel the blood flowing through my whole body.
I used to take a real lot of sets on my initial ramps. I have now shortened it quite a bit. I am more confident in where my ramp will reach, so, i jump the weight faster. Honestly, i like it better this way. Before, with the long ramps, i had already used up a bigger portion of my available energy. It was almost like a workout in and of itself. And now the whole session feels much better.
eg. my bench ramp max is 265-275.
i used to do 95-115-135-155-175-185-205-225-235-245-255-265-275
anything under 225 was for multiple reps. 10-8-5-3-2 etc
now, it’s 95-135-185-225-245-255or 265 (depending on how i feel) then 275
and only do 95 for 3 reps, 135 for 2, everything else is 1.
I realized trying to achieve a new max at every session was not helping me.

I only use the quad layer on squats. Squats for me is longer in general, since I’m so terribly out of shape there. the quad layer is great, but it does take longer,AND, I currently do need a longer recovery period from it. But, i am working on it. Patience, and perseverance.

We just gotta keep on rocking Riccochet. Otherwise, what the heck else we gonna do?? :slight_smile:

@riccochet.
i was just reading a few of the posts regarding the loaded carries.
it looks like ct has said the same thing across the board for different circumstances.
"You would be better off doing heavy carries as a second workout. Although it sounds counterintuitive you will actually build more muscle this way.

he wrote that sentence for the easy-hard gainer.
Bench day: Bear hug carries; hold on to a couple of 45lbs plates on your chest and walk… if you can’t do it with 90lbs you can use pair of 35lbs or a single 45lbs plate
Squat day: yoke walk; put the bar on your shoulders and walk
Military press day: overhead walk; hold a barbell overhead, fully locked an behind your ears and walk (obviously use some weight if you can)

Deadlift day: DB farmer’s walk
do three “bouts” of 1 minute trying to get the maximum distance at each bout. Rest 1 minute between bouts."
–looks like this will take about 6 minutes, and it looks like ct really likes them-
I will seriously consider doing some of these if i can mange it in my crowded gym… sometimes walking around in my gym is like an obstacle course:)

[quote]domcib wrote:
Sorry, but I am somewhat confused on this.
I understand that what you write for 1 person, may not be appliacable to another. So, I’ll just ask.
Sessions should be 30-45 minutes including warmups?
I take 10-20 minutes of stretching, situps, jumping, setting up the rack, some techniclal work with bar on cleans, front squat, and overhead squat.

Some days more stretching etc, some not. Even if i didnt do the cleans etc, it would be the same time.
then 1 set of the movement with just the bar for a few reps.
After that I start my session with “warmup” lifts in the movement of the session, and onward. This lasts 30-45 minutes. The quadruple squat layer is longer.
Overall it’s about 60 minutes more or less.

  1. Is this “too much”?
    [/quote]

That’s fine. To me, the workout starts when you begin to lift weights on the bar (or do your jumps)

[quote]domcib wrote:
2. I will be adding the dips and pullups after each session. How should i account for this in my time? [/quote]

It’s part of the workout. You are not an easy-hard gainer, so you do not “need” to get the workout done in less then 45 minutes but still try to complete it as fast as possible. The key is the high density of work. But if you significantly go over 60 minutes then you are either doing too much stuff, or not training at a fast enough pace.

[quote]domcib wrote:
3. Loaded Carries- You have them in a few threads. Apparently, they are important. As in doing them frequently.
a) Should i add them in?
b) If so, how often? And, what about the time factor?[/quote]

Loaded carries are very effective to build muscle, lose fat and get a better work capacity… so you tell me if you want to add them!

Normally, a bout of loaded carries should last about 5 minutes. 3 sets of max distance for 1 minute, with 1 minute of rest between sets. So it will not really affect the workout duration and should be fine unless you are already training longer than 65-70 minutes.

[quote]domcib wrote:
4. In my gym, it takes a fair amount of time to just set up and break down the equipment for the session. I do not count that as “session time”

[/quote]

Normally you should… it’s not a big deal, but to me that reinforces staying in the zone and being focused all the time, no mental breaks.

Domcib, don’t forget as part of the old folks lifting crew we need to focus on density of work–in and out of the gym in ~45min. I think is a good general guideline. Nothing says that each workout has to run the same time though; sometimes you just have that extra drive, and I think at these times you should push it a little.

Crowbar

@ct.
4. In my gym, it takes a fair amount of time to just set up and break down the equipment for the session. I do not count that as “session time”

Normally you should… it’s not a big deal, but to me that reinforces staying in the zone and being focused all the time, no mental breaks.

i can appreciate that. I actually start the setup while I’m doing my stretches so i don’t waste any time.
Like i said before, the actual workout, which for me starts with my first rep with actual weight on the bar, is between 30-45 minutes.
The legs sessions are longer. I need more time to rest and catch my breath. I know this will improve.
I wrote above how i adjusted my ramp. Which makes a LOT of difference. I am feeling really good these days. Honestly, i feel like I can train every day to some extent. So, between some adjustments and your advice, I’m finding a “zone”.
When i start doing the dips and pullups and loaded carries, I will see how goes, and adjust accordingly.
Thanks so much for the input. It helps a LOT!!! :slight_smile: Looks like I have a really good plan now. I’m sure it’ll be fun!

@crowbar
thanks for the input. I agree, My father taught me “when you have an opportunity, you have to take advantage of it, because it might not be there tomorrow”.
I’ve also learned to do some auto -regulation. Eg. i did a lot over practice work on front squats, cleans, and overhead squats the other day. I didn’t realize how much work it ended up being til that night when i tried to sit down and my knees and quads hurt like hell. So, today, I laid off any kind of leg work. They feel much better already.
Can’t wait to get my bands, so i can try them. Probably wont be til next week. My 25th wedding anniversary this weekend.
All the best
dom

I hear you domcib. When you were shot putting did you specialize in just shot putting? How many reps/throws/puts would you perform in a workout?

[quote]Ricochet wrote:
I hear you domcib. When you were shot putting did you specialize in just shot putting? How many reps/throws/puts would you perform in a workout?[/quote]
I threw the shot disc and jav, in college i also threw the 35lb weight.
in hs, we threw on tuesdays and thursday.(most weekends were meets)
we did lots of speed drills and LOTS OF THROWING. how many? i dont remember. but the sessions lasted 90-120 minutes or so. Probably a good 30-45 minutes of pure technical work. then throws to practice the lesson of the day so to speak.
In college, i had access to throwing area any time i wanted, so, i probably threw almost every day. Great anger management stuff. If i was pissed off about something, i’d go throw the 35lb weight til i couldn’t throw anymore!
the weightroom was basically m-w-f, sometimes 2 sessions depending on what we wanted to work on. the basics were, bench, military, squats, cleans. Other lifts such as, snatch, jerks, deads, front squats, push press were all auxillary work so to speak and were used at different times of the season for different reasons.
we also did lots of bounding, jumping etc. if you look at that video of werner, we did almost all of that stuff. it was so much fun, i would rather train than go to class. :slight_smile:

Appreciate the reply. Just curious mate.

I am currently specializing in the Muscle Snatch… pulling from the floor with a semi-wide snatch-grip similar to Thibs’. Just needed a break from Layering for the past 9+ months so I am doing an old school single lift program from George Nathanson known simply as the Nathanson Rest-Pause Method. It was re-popularized by Kim Wood in the late 70s and early 80s.

Typically a single major compound lift is performed for 100 rest-pause reps using 70-80% 1RM with 20-60 second rests between each single. Workouts follow a One Day On ~ Three-Four Days Off schedule… after completing 4-5 sessions you take an entire week off (6-7 days) before repeating the cycle.

Unfortunately, I don’t have access to a platform and/or to an olympic bar and bumper plates so I can not drop the bar. I am forced to muscle the bar down every time… fighting that nearly 7 foot eccentric phase on every rep really kicks one’s ass; making for double the work . I tried performing a 100 reps for a few sessions but all that jolting was making my elbows and wrists sore as hell so I was forced to decrease the reps to 50 reps… with much better results.

My back-up exercise if/when I am unable to Muscle Snatch and/or unable to complete my reps will be the Push Press Hold. Will see what happens as I creep up in weight each session I may need the Push Press Holds to help complete the reps will see.

@ricchochet
100reps at a minute each? sounds like 60-90 minutes of work at 70%.
that sounds like a real lot. i can understand why uou did 50.
did you ever hit a bucket of golf ballas for the first time? or a batting cage with a few tokens?
sounds easy right?
youll be sore in muscles you never knew you had. :slight_smile:
like everything else, you gotta get used to it.
all the best
dom

on another note.
i am in fla for the weekend. i found a gym. cityfitness gym in bradenton. owned by ian harrison. apparently he was in the olympia in the 90’s
really cool place.

[quote]domcib wrote:
@ricchochet
100reps at a minute each? sounds like 60-90 minutes of work at 70%.
that sounds like a real lot. i can understand why uou did 50.
did you ever hit a bucket of golf ballas for the first time? or a batting cage with a few tokens?
sounds easy right?
youll be sore in muscles you never knew you had. :slight_smile:
like everything else, you gotta get used to it.
all the best
dom[/quote]

Completed those 100-rep sessions in 37 to 45 minutes… now with 50 reps and heavier loading I am completing it in about 20-25 minutes. Tough. I think the next session will be closer to 30 minutes as I will be taking longer rests (40-60 seconds) as the weight is getting challenging now that I am creeping up to 80% 1RM.

Tenuous link…
I once spoke with Ian Harrison’s uncle about getting some equipment made, he runs Sherburn Forge (England), just after Ian went over to the 'States; practically got his life story, obviously a very proud uncle!

Unless it’s a diff’rent Ian Harrison =:)

[quote]gym.hodgson wrote:
Tenuous link…
I once spoke with Ian Harrison’s uncle about getting some equipment made, he runs Sherburn Forge (England), just after Ian went over to the 'States; practically got his life story, obviously a very proud uncle!

Unless it’s a diff’rent Ian Harrison =:)[/quote]
its the same ian.
very nice gentleman. gave me a greaat tour of his gym. wish i jad one like that back home.

[quote]Ricochet wrote:

[quote]domcib wrote:
@ricchochet
100reps at a minute each? sounds like 60-90 minutes of work at 70%.
that sounds like a real lot. i can understand why uou did 50.
did you ever hit a bucket of golf ballas for the first time? or a batting cage with a few tokens?
sounds easy right?
youll be sore in muscles you never knew you had. :slight_smile:
like everything else, you gotta get used to it.
all the best
dom[/quote]

Completed those 100-rep sessions in 37 to 45 minutes… now with 50 reps and heavier loading I am completing it in about 20-25 minutes. Tough. I think the next session will be closer to 30 minutes as I will be taking longer rests (40-60 seconds) as the weight is getting challenging now that I am creeping up to 80% 1RM.[/quote]
NICE work!!
i gotta get through the dips and pullups rec from ct before i even think about this. i need lots of work.
i think i did 100 reps on the bench with a bar once. Wicked!