T Nation

SERMs During Cycle Results


#1

Since my cycle is only 6 weeks long i decided not to use HCG and get some bloodwork done during SERM use. I saw lgs’s post about it 2 weeks ago and i have the same kind of results. Although because of the usage of Nolva on cycle i hope recovery will be faster, since nolvadex blood levels are already stable, also i’m prone to gyno so the little extra protection is good.
My cycle is 350 mg/week Test P, 50mg/day Winstrol, 25mg/day Aromasin, 20mg/day Nolvadex.

Bloodwork 1 week before cycle:
LH 3,93 U/L 1,24 - 8,20
FSH 3,98 U/L 1,27 - 19,26
Estradiol 140,9 pmol/L 0,0 - 172,5
Total T 20,7 nmol/L 6,1 - 27,1

Bloorwork 15 days into cylce:
LH 0,64 U/L 1,24 - 8,20
FSH 0,25 U/L 1,27 - 19,26
Estradiol 78,2 pmol/L 0,0 - 172,5 (21pg/ml)
Total T >58 nmol/L 6,1 - 27,1

Nolvadex use during cycle probably doesn’t hurt, but it won’t do too much for LH/FSH.
I have a question, are LH/FSH levels zero if you don’t use Nolva on cycle or is there always a little, no matter what?
Also i believe KSman said that there is no recomendations on Aromasin dosage during cycle like we have with Arimidex and i think it’s interesting that 25mg/day on 350mg/week testosterone keeps estradiol at the perfect level. But since a few clinical trials showed that 25mg/day vs 50mg/day had the same effects on estradiol levels, if someone uses more than 400mg/week testosterone than they should stick to Arimidex.


Do SERMs Work With Injectible T? Results Coming Soon
#2

Thank you for contributing. This is great.


#3

You can not look at clinical trials for Aromasin/Arimidex and draw conclusions while you are on cycle.

The clinical trials are on men with natural T production showed that even high doses of AI are not able to completely bottom out the E2. Speculation is that intertesticular aromatization, which can not be controlled with an AI, will still provide some E2 in serum.

While on cycle, your T -> E2 inside testes is closer to zero. What you’re left with is aromatization in peripheral tissues where an AI can fully exert its effect.


#4

I wonder if Nolvadex would be able to counter the the suppression of some mild suppressive orals?
Would be intriguing to see blood results of an oral only and nolvadex short cycle.


#5

the dose would have more to do with suppression then whether or not it’s an oral or injectable. however, if one used a low dose oral a few days a week (i think some guys around here used to use d-bol on workout days when they were "off), then you might see minimal suppression.

and like we’ve seen with people’s bloodwork while using SERMs, it doesn’t work to keep LH and FSH up.

and again, a SERM is no free ride… SERMs decrease IGF-1 production, increase SHBG, among other things…

if you add something to your cycle, you should have a reason to do it.


#6

thanks for posting your bloodwork…

it’s nice to see more guys using resources available to test out various hypotheses…

i think LGS hit the nail on the head with his explanation of aromasin.


#7

I’m happy to contribute, I heard about guys using Halotestin only, which won’t supress LH/FSH altough it reduces testosterone levels, but can give a kick to strength.


#8

odd. i wish that study showed the values, as i’d like to know how much T, LH and FSH were affected…

interesting find, nonetheless.