T Nation

SERM and AI Sticky


#121

awsome post buddy. Especially useful for people like me who tend to forget all the research one does before doing a cycle but forgets everything after the cycle lol...so nice refresher! Thanks!


#122

Hi first post on this and would really appreciate some advice.

Quick summary - Im 25, have felt depressed. timid, emotional since mid teens. Been on anti-ds but no good. Never felt that puberty really came, despite moderate changes. Never been on steroids! Asked dr if she would check for low testosterone...

Only test that was done was Serum level, came back 9.5nmol/L (9-25). Dr said thats fine, I disagreed, long discussion, agreed to run second set.

Night before second test I had had about a bottle of wine and got a good sleep (Ive read that these can both temporarily spike T levels, thoughts on this would be appreciated)

Results came back as follows:

Serum 14.0nmol (9-25)
Calculated free test 0.37nmol/L (0.22 - 0.76)
SHGB 20.0 nmol/L (15 - 48) (Roche method)

I was concerned at low level considering my age and my quite debilitating symptoms and eventually persuaded the dr to refer me to an endo. Appointment in 2 months.

I have since done a load of reading and have the following thoughts:

  • I would benefit from my testosterone increasing some way or another as it may be the cause of my symptoms.

  • If i get TRT my T levels will go up but my nuts with atrophy and my system will shut off natural supply.

  • If i take HCG this may prevent the above by stimulating leydig cells. Dr may not px HCG.

  • I should take Arimidex regardless of HCG as the increased T will cause my oestrogen to rise.

So at this point I am worried about the possibility of going on this for life but also excited about getting my life back :smiley:

However, ive now come across some research to suggest that a better way to treat low T would be to take Clomid and Arimidex and Bob's your uncle im sorted and will live a full and happy life??

I really appreciate any thoughts whatsoever on this as my head is right up my arse at the minute!

BTW ive got a son so im not firing blanks (and he looks just like me too!!)

Thanks in advance!


#123

Cowboymedical: re post this in the T replacement forum. I'm not knowledgeable enough to help you out but KSman there is, I'll ask BBB to have a look for you as well.

Good luck


#124

Thanks!


#125

Hey Gentlemen. I have a bit of a dilema. I am getting ready to start a solid bulking cycle. But I can't get my hands on any SERMS/AI/Anti E. So I am wondering if anybody knows if there are ANY o.t.c. products that would be effective. Any and all input would be awesome! Thx Guys.

Sus 300- 600mg p/wk for 12wks
Eq 200- 500mg p/wk for 12wks
D bol- 50mg E.D. for wks 3-9
HCG 500iu p/wk for wks 2-12


#126

Hey Gentlemen. I have a bit of a dilema. I am getting ready to start a solid bulking cycle. But I can't get my hands on any SERMS/AI/Anti E. So I am wondering if anybody knows if there are ANY o.t.c. products that would be effective. Any and all input would be awesome! Thx Guys.

Sus 300- 600mg p/wk for 12wks
Eq 200- 500mg p/wk for 12wks
D bol- 50mg E.D. for wks 3-9
HCG 500iu p/wk for wks 2-12


#127

so what is the conclusion on Toremifene and what is the up to date pct for using it? I have a few hundred pills of these and few vials of hcg and want to try it out on next simple 12 week cycle of just test e and dbol-haven’t cycled in awhile-


#128

ok ques for devildog…i just finished a fairly light cycle with sus250…i have already procured the clomid aand the hcg. do i need an ai also to catch the additional estro that the clomid doesnt or would that be overkill?


#129

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Id like to see a little more info on Toremifene, if thats possible.

Specifically the effectiveness in restarting natural production. From what I have read its a very effective anti gyno, and in theory is very effective at restarting production, but I have no personal experience, nor have I met anyone who has used it as a PCT.

I have read very good things about it, especially in the testicular size during PCT. But I have read some studies that worry me, most notably that it may have suppressive affects on testosterone production.

And I would be interested to hear your thoughts in relation to perhaps stacking it with a more common SERM, such as nolva or clomid during PCT.

Thoughts ?[/quote]

Only second hand account of a guy who praises it. HE stacks it but not with Nolva. He said he balls coming ragin back in 3 day’s using Toremifene


#130

Hey everyone, I’m thinking of doing a ph by a company called Thai Labz.Called dragon. My question is what to do for the pct, should I just do their product called go nads, or do I need a serm? Sorry dudes, I’m av little new to the game, I’ve done quite a bit of research, there’s just so much information out there. A solid response would be appreciated, I don’t need sarcasm or put downs :wink: my apologiesfor posting in a thread that’s kind of old. I stumbled across it while researching.


#131

Hey, i just got clomid/nolva/anastozole. how long does it last on the shelf, i dont plan on using it for a while.


#132

Has anyone tried running ADEX at 1mg every 4 days? My source can only provide 1mg capsules and cant cut it to use at .5mg EOD and was advised to take it every 4 days.

This will be my 6th cycle using test E 500mg weekly for 12 weeks and will be my first time using Adex.


#133

[quote]LivinForLiftin wrote:

I’m freakin out. From my research its definitely prolactin induced gyno. Now I’m thinking maybe the Test or the Var were different than I expected even though I had good results. It has to be prolactin from everything I’ve read.
[/quote]


#134

The opening post should be changed. There are several problems. Is OP still in action here?


#135

[quote]KSman wrote:
The opening post should be changed. There are several problems. Is OP still in action here?[/quote]

i don’t think he’s been in this forum for at least a couple years.


#136

Is it necessary to take a AI during a cycle?


#138

I’ve seen that elsewhere but never found the original study stating this? Where is this figure coming from. Genuinely curious.

all I’ve read is Toremifene seems to leave the androgen receptor alone while Nolvadex is somewhat anti-androgenic. Is this explaining the 5 fold difference?