T Nation

Serious Mass Cycle for BBing Comp


Hey guys, I'm going for a mass cycle to make as much muscle as possible before starting my 16 week diet for competition, I am obsessed with bodybuilding, Ive been for a while, Ive been reading alot for I'm 23, 175 lbs, 8,5%bf, 5'8`feet... been training for 5 yrs but last year was the only one I trained without taking 2-3 months off due to injuries...And I wend from 150lbs 13% to 195lbs 15% then cut down to 167 5,5%bf...now im bulking back up... here are some stats just fyi :

Inclined Bench : 225 x 6
Leg Press : 855 x 12
Squat : 285 x 8
bb rows : 225 x 10

My first experience with AAS was last year...I started doing some M1T, 2weeks on 2 weeks off for 3 months...made some really good gains but I injured myself and got shutdown HARD and lost some gains so I said screw PHs and hopped on a real cycle for my cutting phase, cycle was weeks 1-4 300mg Tprop + Winny, weeks 5-8 300mg Tprop 200mg Tren A...Weeks 9-10 200mg Tprop, Weeks 11-12 100mg tprop...10 days off then 10,000iu HCG and nolva therapy...

overall dropped 25lbs and made muscle while doing it, now since im off I lost a little muscle and gained a little fat id say but its also due to the fact that I havent been as serious with the diet...Im happy with the end result...only thing that sucked was that I got backne but its going away now almost all of it is gone..will be by the time I start my next cycle I will have taken 3 months off (I know it should be more but I dont have time to wait I need to bulk before cutting and competition is probably at the beginning of july and I wanna diet for 16 weeks, february will be my last month of bulking)

So this next cycle will be my first real AAS bulking cycle and as I said i'm going to be competing this summer so I need to pack on as much muscle as possible and if that means water retention and some fat then so be it, 16 weeks of dieting will take care of it later..

Heres a rough plan

Weeks 1-2-3---7-8-9 :

T400, 2cc on weeks 1-2-7-8, 1cc on weeks 3 and 9

Weeks 4-5-6---10-11-12 :

Sustanon 325, 2cc on weeks 4-5-10-11, 1cc on weeks 6 and 12

Weeks 1-4 :

Dbol 40mg ED

Weeks 1-12

Equipoise around 400 - 500mg per week (I chose EQ instead of deca because It's easier on the nuts..)


The reason I use a high dose for the first two weeks than half the third is to even the blood level because of the long esters in the T400 and Sust are just pooling for the first few weeks, and I alternate the tests to keep the receptors guessing so they dont get used to just one kind of test..

I will probably throw in a small dose of Adex throughout the cycle to prevent gyno, and I have some minocycline at hand in case backne decides to show up again..I will also use 5000Iu HCG in the middle of the cycle...

Pct will be 10,000 Iu HCG, Nolva therapy..

Ive been reading forums here for a long time and I just hope the people who have a great knowledge of AAS will give me their opinions, this is still just a rough plan and I'm really open to tweaking it.

Thank you for your time


Your thoughts (wherever they originated from) on Testosterone, HCG, and PCT are a little.....misguided...


My trainer is a retired IFBB pro, we quickly planned this together, but please expand on ur thoughts !


It's amazing any of us make it through puberty having been exposed to only one kind of test.....


It's amazing how none of us look like the Hulk after puberty :wink:


No matter what ester is used to deploy the parent hormone, the receptors only see free test. The ester is cleaved off in the bloodstream.


Is there truth to this? I thought test was test no matter what the ester. Where did you get this info from?


Id like to see a study proving that...but lets say your right...Its still not a bad idea to alternate tests...either Id use same or different esters the results would be the same...at least thats how you make it sound.

Thank you for your time btw !

Btw, I can get access to Test enth(250) and Sust(250) in amps...U think the results would be better than with T400 and Sust 325 ?....considering the tests coming in bottles are always underdosed..actually I think I'm gonna make a new thread about it..


I think Endo Test is Endo test...but I believe the receptors can get used to Exo Test since its chemically made just like any other drug the body can get accustomed to...My info comes from my trainer who is a retired IFBB pro who was followed by the same doctors who followed Arnold during his BBing career...


I think the only evidence your trainer could provide you is anecdotal at best.

Why over complicate everything like that?

Also, you are planning to use 5,000 iu hcg at once?
And for PCT 10,000iu at once?


Probably Ill talk to him about it...

LOL fuck no Ill split the first 5,000 Iu in 3 shots prolly 2000 then 1500 1500

and for pct 10,000 in 5 shots of 2000 Ius every 2 or 3 days, worked perfectly for me last time I did it...the boys grew big and stayed big LOL


It's just the first I have heard of it is all. It does make some sense can?t see it hurting that?s for sure. It?s

Would blood levels be less stable switching tests? Different esters different release times. Do you see that as a benefit or problem?


OK before this gets out of hand.

  1. unless your trainer (that you are certainly overpaying) has a degree or has done extensive research in the field of biochemsistry, the fact that he used to get paid to be a bodybuilder is irrelevant. Stop mentioning his former ifbb status, it's irrelevant and only making you sound snooty.

Further, the reference you made to doctors is rather pointless. Those doctors are probably dead by now. Meaning the information they had in the 1960s in no shape or form holds more weight than the information (facts) that exist today. I have no idea how educated your guru is but it would not shock me if he has completely butchered any information he may have gleaned 50 something years ago.

That's not an insult, it's reality. Most people in this world dont have the brains to be doctors and even fewer can remember what their doctor explained to them 50 years ago.

So please stop using your trainer as a cop out as to why you are misinformed. Own up to the words you write or dont say them.

  1. you are the one making the ridiculous claim that the human body knows the difference between different testosterone preparations at the receptor level. In this instance, asking someone to prove a negative by citing studies is borderline rude. YOU provide the studies showing that the body recognizes the different esters.

  2. HCG can be and usually is suppressive to natural testosterone production in the doses commonly used in steroid cycles (and certainly in the enormous doses you are talking about). The size of your testicles has nothing to do with whether your HPTA is functioning.

There is far too much information on this board alone, let alone the entire internet, for you to waltz in here asking people to educate you on rather basic concepts (i.e. therapeutic use of hCG and androgen receptor activation). If someone says something that is different than what you think you know, it would be wise to do some damn research on the issue. Instead saying 'oh but this guy that lifts weights told me so.'


Ok here we go,

First of all thank you for replying, I respect you and your opinions your the kind of guy I wanted a response from...

Now in response to your post :

1.I'm not going to defend his(trainer) credibility here and I didnt even want to talk about him but people just asked me for my source of information...notice I didnt even bring him up in my first post...this is about me and not him...and u make it sound like hes some kind of old man he's barely over 50...but youre right when you say his knowledge is oldschool and alot of it has probably been proved wrong by now and that is exactly why im here !!...If i thought he was right on everything I wouldn't have posted here lol... so I'm not using him as a cop out I'm just replying to ppl who asked me for my source of info..

  1. As for the claim that that the human body knows the difference between different testosterone preparations at the receptor level..well I researched on and found nothing saying it was not true and nothing saying it was, and I didnt ASK for a study I said I would really like to find one to finally be clear about it because I really find it makes sens..In no way did I mean to be rude, I'm here to learn that's all...

  2. Now I think u took it wrong when I said 10,000 iu im going to split it...not just take one big shot !...u still think thats too much ? from what Ive read and heard it doesnt seem like an anormous dose...but if u tell me it is id actually be happy...Id rather not shoot more stuff than my body actually needs...And when I say it worked I dont rely only on testicle size...its also about the workout intensity, the fact that I have kept most gains, high libido etc...basically I feel like my test levels are at least ok...

I followed ur sticky about cycle posting because I wanted to get real answers and help...and ur still flaming me for not knowing everything lol...if I didnt need help I wouldnt have come here...Its just that if someone tells me I should do something different than what Ive proposed, give me your reasons of why you think your proposition is better, otherwise I'd just do it ''cuz some guy on the internet told me so''

I'm serious about AAS and I try to get as much info as I can...I do as much research as I can and if I say Id like to see some proofs its because I havent found them myself after researching about it.

Thank you for your time it's really appreciated !


yea I would really like to see a study enlightening this subject but I couldnt find one...

About blood levels, when using Test blens like T400 or Sust I know the long esters are just pooling for the first few weeks so thats why it would be best to take a higher dose in the beginning cuz u only get the short esters to work and lower the dose as the long esters start to kick in...so it depends on what kind of esters ur alternative test consists of...I'll try to find a link about all this but i gotta go to work right now...I'll try to post it from my phone later on hehe


I did not flame you. Believe that.

A useful dose of hCG DURING the cycle is about 200-250iu 2-3 times per week. No more is necessary. HCG should not be used as a part of post cycle therapy. Research why.

I will not give you my reasons as to why I disagree with your trainer. I have about 5000 posts in the steroids forum. Anything I could say in this thread I have said 10x over.

Again, if someone is disagreeing with what you are saying it's on you to find out why. I promise you that no one in this thread is trolling you or sending you on a wild goose chase for information that doesnt exist.

If you want to be spoon fed information, then pay someone to teach you.

Your cycle is fine btw (aside from unnecessarily changing drugs). And you arent the first person to think that 1000iu of hCG is a good idea. It seems like you are willing to learn, which is good. And I missed the part about why you were mentioning your trainer, exuse me for that.


Ty very much ! Ur right appearently HCG in PCT can actually delay the recovery process...I just hope I didnt fuck myself up in my last pct where I took 5 shots of 2000ius...

So for PCT Clomid/Nolva should do it I guess.

Although I'm most likely gonna run a cutting cycle(something like Tprop,winny, and maybe some tren) 1-2 months after this bulking cycle so I dont know if its a good idea to restart my system then shut it down again like that...Maybe I should just cruise for a month or two until the cutting cycle ? idk...


Test is test. However, jumping back and forth between different esters and up and down in dose is less than ideal, and you would honestly know why if you had some more firsthand experience with these drugs. No flame. Just reality.

The layout is too complicated. Do yourself a favor and use Sust shooting EOD, or use Test E shooting 2x per week and be done with it!!! If you want to switch up esters then why not finish off the last few weeks of your cycle with Test Prop while waiting for the longer esters to clear?? Makes more sense. Is more simple. Promotes better stability. Reduces the likelihood of shitty sides from all that useless changes in drug choice and dose. The idea of a dbol kickstart (which you have) is to get gains now while waiting for longer acting gear to "kick in", so why do all that needless stuff as proposed?

400 EQ is on the light side IMO if you're only running 12 weeks worth. Bump it to 600 and you'll be happier.

HCG has been covered above, and all over the forum. 250 IU 3x per week is fine during your cycle. And no, you likely haven't done jack shit to yourself by shooting 5 shots of 2000 IU's.

There are PCT protocols all over the place for good nolva/clomid dosing and duration.


I will do more research on alternating esters...I might decide to use Test E or Sust in amps instead...I just wanna make the most out of my cycle.