Serge Nubret Pump Training

I haven’t been around T-Nation in a while, did we lose the “this is exactly the program I was looking for” posters?

Anyway I decided to give this a go. Holy Hell…I’m glad I still have some Anaconda to get me through these workouts.

I started 3 days ago with arms/shoulders. I also used rope pressdowns as move #1 and kickbacks as move #2 due to bad tendonitis. My arms and shoulders had never felt a better pump. Here’s the ultimate validation…my girlfriend hugged me later that night and said “you feel big”

I had never done pullovers before…they are fun. I’m not feeling any soreness in my chest, but I’ve been hitting it hardest lately. That will probably change when I up the weight.

It could be coincedence but I feel hungrier in the morning since I started. This program is also coinciding with a caloric surplus phase so we’ll see how it goes.

all in all I really like it so far.

happy lifting all

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:

[quote]BHappy wrote:
That article confirms that focussing on heavier weight to progress is not necessairely the right path. I have been focussing on TUT before i read about Serge pump style and it works. Heavy weights forces a trainee to search for ways to unload, locking elbows/knees etc…
Light loads forces us to search for ways to add stress, TUT …
Plus going lighter is safer. I just love that approach.
Like Mutu wrote " The whole point is to do it fast… "
We have to trust that volume works for us.
Well at least it is the way i understand it.
Thanks jp_dubya[/quote]

agreed, but I can see the value of cycling training to focus on strength once all the gains of a volume phase are squeezed out, a strength cycle will help to be able to allow more load to subsequent volume phases. [/quote]

jp_dubya, i totally agree with you. I see this as a multi heads screwdriver. A cool tool to be used to get leaner, improve endurance, resistance, fuller muscles, have fun. A hammer is also a usefull tool.
PS. Happy pushing too, welcome aboard davidtower

I also started this week and came to the same conclusion that it’s not for the people on a tight schedule takes me an hour and half with warm ups and mobility drills.

One thing to be careful about is going TOO light. Although I rather start light and gauge where I’m at, I underestimated a lot of my lifts (this is only the first week, I plan on running for 4-6) and Aside from Day A, all the other days just felt TOO light. Good thing I keep a workout log, I’m just going to increase by 5 lbs for the next workout and see how it feels. I’m talking so light I barely felt the pump after the entire workout was completed, when as somebody else just mentioned my arms feel like they’re about to burst when I just do a couple of regular 4x12 bicep curls/preacher bicep curls.

jldume welcome aboard !
Your avi says you are way more experienced than me in the gym. After about 6 weeks with these principles there are ways out. I too endup with way light loads, then maybe 10 sec. rest are the solution. Being a beginner i do not do that volume but the principles get me results. Some use the high end of the suggested rest time, i prefer the low end wich might cut time some. I guess it might be a personality or goal thing.

All the best !

Working out like this is kind of fun, think I will stick with it for awhile.
If you guys don’t like that it takes too long, try only training one part per day instead of two, but going heavier than normal.

I try to use a weight that I will struggle with on the last 2 or 3 sets. Not enough to where I can’t get good form, but enough that after I’m done I’m sucking air quite heavily. Sometimes I start getting tired on the 2nd or 3rd set and I think “oooh shit”. Usually at this point I can only do 8-10 reps instead of 12 per set so I add in a 7th set at the end.

Also, you guys think there’s anything wrong with going too fast? Sometimes I don’t want to work out at all, so I only rest about 5-10 secs between the sets just to get it over with as fast as possible.

Mutu, you wrote “Working out like this is kind of fun”
I think being imperfect is human so cutting off a few minutes is no problem. The problem is if we do not like training and start looking for excuses to not train then progress will stall. When in a hurry keeping good form to be safe should be a priority.
Personally i like to do 6 sets in 6 min, 12 for legs.
Happy trainings!

[quote]BHappy wrote:
Mutu, you wrote “Working out like this is kind of fun”
I think being imperfect is human so cutting off a few minutes is no problem. The problem is if we do not like training and start looking for excuses to not train then progress will stall. When in a hurry keeping good form to be safe should be a priority.
Personally i like to do 6 sets in 6 min, 12 for legs.
Happy trainings![/quote]

I’ve been running a my own variation of this routine for the last 5 weeks or so, main differences being exercises used, split used and rep cycling.

Exercises used: variations due to limitations of several joint issues/injuries accumulated over training years.

Split: I’m an older trainer so simply cannot recover as quickly as I used to. I generally do between 6 and 8 exercises per workout. I use a Gymboss timer set at between 60 secs and 70 seconds: this is time I have to perform my set, rest a little, then at the beep, start my next set. It translates to a rest period of around 30 seconds, sometimes more, sometimes less depending upon the exercise used. Depending upon the setting 6 to 7 minutes to complete 6 sets. However this method provides a constant from workout to workout and means that my workouts including warmups are usually around 50 to 65 mins in duration (depending upon the number of exercises performed).

Rep cycling: I rotate 3 rep schemes, 6X12, 6X10, 6X8, then take a few days off and beign again at 6X12 etc.

Arms: I don’t superset. i use straight sets as per any other bodypart. I get a tremendous pump from these workouts, plus I’m in a busy gym so can’t really tie up multiple pieces of kit.

I’ve trained “Gironda esque” style in the past so Nubrets methods are similar, but slightly higher reps/sets.

Progression: I’m trying to add very small weight increases at each rotation. You could use decreasing time: either method increases the density of training (work done in a given time) so I wouldn’t get too anal about the chosen method of progression.

From a joint friendly perspective, this type of training is about as good as it gets. It’s at least allowing me to get some workouts under my belt!!

Gazz

Gazz wrote:

“Rep cycling: I rotate 3 rep schemes, 6X12, 6X10, 6X8, then take a few days off and beign again at 6X12 etc”

i will try that.
About how much heavier from 12 to 10(10%)?
About how much heavier from 10 to 8(10%)?
I am on upper lower split(my small muscles do well with it) and i wanted to alternate 12 reps. than 6 but kind of did 12 alternated with less than 12 LOL. Your system will give me structure. I remember reading that the first thing we adapt to is reps #.
Also for legs do you use same reps. # ?(i use about 60% more for legs).
Thanks a bunch !
PS. With 14 min. abs at home my average is about 55 min. i am doing 2 gym visits about 60% of the time(i am only a 5 min. bike ride away).

[quote]BHappy wrote:
Gazz wrote:

“Rep cycling: I rotate 3 rep schemes, 6X12, 6X10, 6X8, then take a few days off and beign again at 6X12 etc”

i will try that.
About how much heavier from 12 to 10(10%)?
About how much heavier from 10 to 8(10%)?
I am on upper lower split(my small muscles do well with it) and i wanted to alternate 12 reps. than 6 but kind of did 12 alternated with less than 12 LOL. Your system will give me structure. I remember reading that the first thing we adapt to is reps #.
Also for legs do you use same reps. # ?(i use about 60% more for legs).
Thanks a bunch !
PS. With 14 min. abs at home my average is about 55 min. i am doing 2 gym visits about 60% of the time(i am only a 5 min. bike ride away).[/quote]

Yeah, good starting points would be 10% and 10%.

Legs & calves exactly the same reps unles I am throwing in some bodyweight only leg exercises in which case the reps my move a little higher or lower.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on details. Feel whats right and what makes sense to you, not necessarily what Nubret did or what I’m doing at this point. I posted in the original article that as Nubret had trained for many many years, the routine posted would have been his thoughts at a point in time, which had no doubt evolved over time, and would no doubt evolve further in the future. Having said that, as a base, it’s a good article, perhaps not for everyone, but this training style suits me (at this point in time).

I haven’t added the abs thing in the morning yet, but will maybe give it a go.

My current split is:
Day 1: Back width/shoulders
Day 2: Hams/Adductors/w back/localves
Day 3: Arms
Day 4: Legs (mainly bodyweight, bit of playaround day) & abs &calves
Day 5: Back thickness/traps/chest
Day 6: Quads/Calves/Abs
Day 7: Begin rotation again on different rep scheme

Hope this helps
Gazz

Gazz thanks a million, i am not average so from day 1 i have been designing my personal program. I know i am the one to find out the details, but i appreciate you took time to give me the ball park to fine tune.
I had never heard about Serge nor Bradley so i mentioned when i started this thread that it was open. The principles mather not the details. I am getting older and wiser but newbie about iron. I do the abs as a xmas gift to myself, inching closer weekly.
It definitely helps !

Danny Padilla used to do something similar.

During most of the year Danny trains 4 to 6 days a week He always follows the same split. Day 1 Chest and Back. Day 2 Shoulders and Arms. Day 3 legs. Repeat. If he misses a workout, (which he often does, he doesn?t worry about it, he just does that workout when he returns to the gym. During this time he does 2 to 3 exercises per body-part for 5 sets of 12 reps. Danny uses the same weight in each set. When he can get 12 reps on all 5 sets, he?ll add weight during the next workout. His rest between sets is short. No longer than a minute. Even though the volume is high Danny completes these workouts in just over an hour? This is another way of keeping the intensity high which was taught by Vince Gironda, Bill Pearl and other great trainers of ?the golden era? of bodybuilding.

Chest and Back
Bench Press 2-3 warm-up sets then 5 X 12
Incline 5 X 12
Flys 5 X 12
Dumbbell Pullovers 5 X 12
Chins 5 X 12
Bent Barbell Rows 5 X 12
Cable Pull-ins 5 X 12
Once a week he does Deadlifts 5 X 12

Shoulders and Arms
Seated presses 2 warm-ups then 5 X 12
Super-seted with cable laterals 5 X 12
Dumbbell rear delt raises 5 X 12
Front Raises OR Upright Rows 5 X 12
Dumbbell Curls 5 X 8
Barbell Curls 5 X 8
Concentration Curls OR Preacher Curls 5 X 8
Lying triceps extensions 5 X 12
Seated overhead EZ bar extensions 5 X 12
Pushdowns OR One arm dumbbell overhead extensions 5 X 12

Legs ? Abs
Leg Extensions 5 X 12
Squats 5 X 12
Leg Presses 5 X 12
Lying Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Calf Raises 5 X 12
Donkey Calf Raises 5 X 15
Seated Calf Raises 5 X 15
Crunches or Leg Raises 5 X 20

[quote]Bane11 wrote:
Danny Padilla used to do something similar.

During most of the year Danny trains 4 to 6 days a week He always follows the same split. Day 1 Chest and Back. Day 2 Shoulders and Arms. Day 3 legs. Repeat. If he misses a workout, (which he often does, he doesn?t worry about it, he just does that workout when he returns to the gym. During this time he does 2 to 3 exercises per body-part for 5 sets of 12 reps. Danny uses the same weight in each set. When he can get 12 reps on all 5 sets, he?ll add weight during the next workout. His rest between sets is short. No longer than a minute. Even though the volume is high Danny completes these workouts in just over an hour? This is another way of keeping the intensity high which was taught by Vince Gironda, Bill Pearl and other great trainers of ?the golden era? of bodybuilding.

Chest and Back
Bench Press 2-3 warm-up sets then 5 X 12
Incline 5 X 12
Flys 5 X 12
Dumbbell Pullovers 5 X 12
Chins 5 X 12
Bent Barbell Rows 5 X 12
Cable Pull-ins 5 X 12
Once a week he does Deadlifts 5 X 12

Shoulders and Arms
Seated presses 2 warm-ups then 5 X 12
Super-seted with cable laterals 5 X 12
Dumbbell rear delt raises 5 X 12
Front Raises OR Upright Rows 5 X 12
Dumbbell Curls 5 X 8
Barbell Curls 5 X 8
Concentration Curls OR Preacher Curls 5 X 8
Lying triceps extensions 5 X 12
Seated overhead EZ bar extensions 5 X 12
Pushdowns OR One arm dumbbell overhead extensions 5 X 12

Legs ? Abs
Leg Extensions 5 X 12
Squats 5 X 12
Leg Presses 5 X 12
Lying Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Calf Raises 5 X 12
Donkey Calf Raises 5 X 15
Seated Calf Raises 5 X 15
Crunches or Leg Raises 5 X 20
[/quote]

Thanks for sharing,

And yep Bill Pearl and Vince both did a lot of similar training, albeit Vince hated the standard bench press( he MIGHT of approved a constant wide grip, but he loved neck presses)

I would do an article on Vince , however he has been publicized a lot lately. You guys should like my next one though , another hugely underappreciated individual. A hint is he did a lot of strength exbitions around the world and loved helping kids.

And for a slightly different picture of my progress here is one that I took when my chest was just coming up after this routine . Before this I had practically no chest ( 37 inches). I added 4 inches using Serges routine specifically and keep a wide grip bench until current day.

Still not perfectly up to date but I like to keep a little surprise in my progress, I am about 13 pounds heavier now then I was here. ( Still the same waist , I do not want to go over 28 inches)

Suggestions from Serge about abs and more, i found that link in the spill, thanks to Iron Dwarf

Bradley, i want to get under 28, now under 29.

[quote]BHappy wrote:
Suggestions from Serge about abs and more, i found that link in the spill, thanks to Iron Dwarf

Bradley, i want to get under 28, now under 29. [/quote]

Serges routine is what got me under 28. You might also want to try a vacuum posing routine, I couldn’t hit 27 even(my all time low) until I did them. The transverse abdominis is really under appreciated, especially if you are already lean.

I probably am at 27.5 now again though, right at 200 lbs.

Bradley wrote:

“You might also want to try a vacuum posing routine”

i have no clue how to do that, is it somewhat like in yoga pulling in our belly ?
Is it done as an exercise or just for mesuring ?
I can be close to 200 with a plate in my back pocket…
pic on post 8 ?

[quote]BHappy wrote:
Bradley wrote:

“You might also want to try a vacuum posing routine”

i have no clue how to do that, is it somewhat like in yoga pulling in our belly ?
Is it done as an exercise or just for mesuring ?
I can be close to 200 with a plate in my back pocket…
pic on post 8 ?

It is a pose but also a exercise that can be used to strengthen your Transverse Abdominis. This can permanently help you lose a little size off the waist because it is the muscle that pulls in the stomach. You have to be lean to actually notice decent results though. Id link to a good routine for it but can’t now.

Edit: here you go

The Lost Art of the Vacuum

Bodybuilders of old were conscious of their midsections and worked diligently to perfect the v-shaped tapered look most of us strive for. Countless hours were spent strengthening and learning how to control the inner depths of their abdominal walls. One of my all time favorites,Frank Zane,was the master.

This technique not only had a positive result from a physique standpoint,but it developed the muscles responsible for respiration to their fullest.

Learning how to properly perform a vacuum is the first step down the pathway to better respiration.

  1. Begin by lying face up with your knees bent and your feet on the floor.

  2. Engage your inner abdominal wall by drawing in as if you wanted to touch it to your spine.

  3. Once engaged,start to slowly breath in through your nose and fill your lungs as completely as possible.

  4. Once you have reached your fullest breath, hold it for a five count and slowly breath out through your mouth without releasing your abdominal wall.

  5. Relax,and without engaging your abdominal wall,take another deep breath,holding it for a five count before slowly breathing out,thus reinforcing the progression towards a greater lung capacity.

  6. Repeat this cycle for a total of twenty breaths for as many sets as you want. The more you do, the better the results. Steadily increase your hold count to improve respiratory efficiency.

  7. The next step would be to progress to a four-point stance on your hands and knees, followed next by kneeling.

Engage, Breathe, Execute

Once you feel that you’ve made progress and sucked all you can out of your vacuums,it’s time to apply this method to exercise.

  1. Visualize any compound lift,and upon approaching the bar,take three slow,deep breaths in through your nose and out through your mouth.

  2. Grasp the bar,engage your abdominal wall, and fill your lungs with air.

  3. Execute the lift,breathing out with force and keeping the tension on your abdominal wall.

  4. As you decelerate the weight,repeat your deep breath in and execute the lift again, objectively trying to keep your abdominal wall engaged throughout the number of reps chosen and breaths taken.

Upon completion of the exercise,take another three deep breaths applying the five-to-ten-second hold pattern,thus allowing for further oxygen saturation into the bloodstream,as well as improving lung capacity.

Not only does this supply the necessary oxygen to your body,but at the same time it helps to control your heart rate. By increasing your intake of oxygen and engaging your core musculature,you’ll soon see the positive benefits as your strength and rep ranges go up.

Secondarily,you’ll also experience a better-developed abdomen and an overall tightening of the midsection,resulting in a flatter,firmer stomach. Respiration will be more efficient and your body will function at a higher level.

[quote]Bradley Joe Kelly wrote:

[quote]BHappy wrote:
Bradley wrote:

“You might also want to try a vacuum posing routine”

i have no clue how to do that, is it somewhat like in yoga pulling in our belly ?
Is it done as an exercise or just for mesuring ?
I can be close to 200 with a plate in my back pocket…
pic on post 8 ?

It is a pose but also a exercise that can be used to strengthen your Transverse Abdominis. This can permanently help you lose a little size off the waist because it is the muscle that pulls in the stomach. You have to be lean to actually notice decent results though. Id link to a good routine for it but can’t now.

Edit: here you go, one variation of the exercise.

The Lost Art of the Vacuum

Bodybuilders of old were conscious of their midsections and worked diligently to perfect the v-shaped tapered look most of us strive for. Countless hours were spent strengthening and learning how to control the inner depths of their abdominal walls. One of my all time favorites,Frank Zane,was the master.

This technique not only had a positive result from a physique standpoint,but it developed the muscles responsible for respiration to their fullest.

Learning how to properly perform a vacuum is the first step down the pathway to better respiration.

  1. Begin by lying face up with your knees bent and your feet on the floor.

  2. Engage your inner abdominal wall by drawing in as if you wanted to touch it to your spine.

  3. Once engaged,start to slowly breath in through your nose and fill your lungs as completely as possible.

  4. Once you have reached your fullest breath, hold it for a five count and slowly breath out through your mouth without releasing your abdominal wall.

  5. Relax,and without engaging your abdominal wall,take another deep breath,holding it for a five count before slowly breathing out,thus reinforcing the progression towards a greater lung capacity.

  6. Repeat this cycle for a total of twenty breaths for as many sets as you want. The more you do, the better the results. Steadily increase your hold count to improve respiratory efficiency.

  7. The next step would be to progress to a four-point stance on your hands and knees, followed next by kneeling.

Engage, Breathe, Execute

Once you feel that you’ve made progress and sucked all you can out of your vacuums,it’s time to apply this method to exercise.

  1. Visualize any compound lift,and upon approaching the bar,take three slow,deep breaths in through your nose and out through your mouth.

  2. Grasp the bar,engage your abdominal wall, and fill your lungs with air.

  3. Execute the lift,breathing out with force and keeping the tension on your abdominal wall.

  4. As you decelerate the weight,repeat your deep breath in and execute the lift again, objectively trying to keep your abdominal wall engaged throughout the number of reps chosen and breaths taken.

Upon completion of the exercise,take another three deep breaths applying the five-to-ten-second hold pattern,thus allowing for further oxygen saturation into the bloodstream,as well as improving lung capacity.

Not only does this supply the necessary oxygen to your body,but at the same time it helps to control your heart rate. By increasing your intake of oxygen and engaging your core musculature,you’ll soon see the positive benefits as your strength and rep ranges go up.

Secondarily,you’ll also experience a better-developed abdomen and an overall tightening of the midsection,resulting in a flatter,firmer stomach. Respiration will be more efficient and your body will function at a higher level.[/quote]

Bradley- What is your diet like? You don’t have to be overly specific…

Hi everybody. I will give the Nubret PumP PRINCIPLES a try. I said principles and not routine as IMHO the original routine have a lot of flaws. One question that keep coming up in my mind is the sheer volume of it And the fact that me not being that strong (310 DL -12 bw pull ups- 125 OH press @156lbs) I would have to do push ups for the chest as 6 x 12 with <60s seems quite brutal.

Would like your feedback on this. I did a “feeling workout” and honestly, would have to use bodyweigth in most upper body movements.
Have any of you has encounter this problem?

The modifications apart from exercise selection, frequency is adding at least 1 set x 5 a week of the following reps of the OH press, DL / Squat (alternating) and heavy chin up. Just to make sure i dont lose strength.

Any thoughts and insights on the loading question would be appreciated.

Once I start i will follow it for at least 8 weeks. Will measure progress on physique (pictures/measurement) and strength (dead lift-squat-OH press-chin up) .

Lets se what happen :wink: