Serge Nubret Pump Training

furo i do not want to argue but your words were:

" I think the standard progression for this routine is to add weight once you can hit the given sets and reps with the given rest period "

I cannot agree whith that part. That should happen on our first try. Doing that is nothing worth celebrating and adding weight is likely we will miss next WO. If Serge waited many WO to cut 15 sec and i regularly cut 5 sec i am not far from him.
I specified that starting at the low end of the suggested rest period is in my own words:

" Personally i try to start with the minimum suggested rests times 30/60 sec(legs), cut down to 25, 20, 15, 12, why rest ? Well i answer to sip water so i am forced to add weight. "

To me it more or less equals going from 8 to 12 reps than adding weight. Wich is not a secret i discovered yesterday.

I did not tell anyone they should do that.

Everyone is welcome to jump in. Please send in your 2 cents after my great WO i am hungry !

[quote]BHappy wrote:
furo i do not want to argue but your words were:

" I think the standard progression for this routine is to add weight once you can hit the given sets and reps with the given rest period "

I cannot agree whith that part. That should happen on our first try. Doing that is nothing worth celebrating and adding weight is likely we will miss next WO. If Serge waited many WO to cut 15 sec and i regularly cut 5 sec i am not far from him.
I specified that starting at the low end of the suggested rest period is in my own words:

" Personally i try to start with the minimum suggested rests times 30/60 sec(legs), cut down to 25, 20, 15, 12, why rest ? Well i answer to sip water so i am forced to add weight. "

To me it more or less equals going from 8 to 12 reps than adding weight. Wich is not a secret i discovered yesterday.

I did not tell anyone they should do that.

Everyone is welcome to jump in. Please send in your 2 cents after my great WO i am hungry ![/quote]

Of course I do not want to argue either, I donā€™t see this as an argument: just a discussion of our interpretations of the programme.

I donā€™t understand how adding weight is ā€˜nothing worth celebratingā€™ and how it would cause us to ā€˜miss our next WOā€™. In terms of intensity you would still be working with your 20rm, itā€™s just that max will have increased slightly.

Nowhere does it suggest that Nubret used decreasing rest times as a REGULAR form of progression, it only says he did it occasionally. This leads me to believe that he would have used a different form of progression for the majority of the time.

Maybe we are simply miscommunicating, I donā€™t know. Iā€™m just saying my interpretation of the programme.

There is no problem only 2 different interpretations.
All the best !

[quote]L-Dee wrote:
For those whoā€™ve been on the routine for a few weeks, do you notice any signs of overtraining?

Iā€™ve been doing this for a few weeks now and Iā€™m noticing some lethargy and joint pain, even though I donā€™t really push to increase the weights that much. Itā€™s tricky cause still kinda want to go to the gym everyday since I know I donā€™t have to, intensity-wise, make a max effort, just put in the work and get the reps in. Missing a workout would feel like missing practice which seems silly.
Maybe the volume is too much for me, even though I started with half the prescribed volume. Also going 6 days a week might be too much.
Iā€™m thinking of switching things up a bit by changing into a push/pull/legs type of split, decreasing overall volume, switching a couple of days to home workouts with dips and pull-ups, and possibly adding a heavy low rep/volume lift first.[/quote]

The routine Serge gave that is in the article is just a outline, an idea of a way of training. The way you adapt it and apply it is up to you , success in bodybuilding is a lot about adapting a routine to yourself. Not enough that you take away from what it is at the core, but enough you can do the routine with 100% effort, confidence and consistently.

Like I mentioned in the article some people make better results with 3 days on , 1 off.

A
B
C
REST
A
B
C

I was not a big fan of the dips in this routine myself, so I found another tricep substitution. Trainee A might have lacking medial deltoids so he does not appear as wide as he wants and adapt the program to prioritize that. Trainee B may have a good triceps lateral and medial head, but lacking in the long head so he has little hang in a bicep pose so emphasizes that.

And on which form of progression to primarily use, it is up to you. The routine is great in that it gives you those 2 to easily switch between. Take advantage of that.

[quote]BHappy wrote:
There is no problem only 2 different interpretations.
All the best ![/quote]

Indeed, all the best to you too.

On a couple of lift I have made my first weight progession this week. All my rep ranges were 12-15 with 30 sec rest for upper body, and 60 sec rest for lower.

I would start with 12 rep, and then progress the reps each workout.

Now with a few lifts, I am going to increase the weight by 5 lbs. and I will be down at the low end (12 reps) again. This is how I choose my program. Gives the best of both pump training and progression.

** Iā€™ve been on the program for 5 weeks. First weight progression came after 4 weeks.

I just finished my fourth week and I have been handling progression like this: first, I am not up to 8 sets yet in all of the exercises that call for it. I am trying to add one set per body part per week to hit the target of 8.

Second, if I am getting all 12 reps on each set, I will lower the rest period 5 seconds on the next workout. Once I get to 1 min on legs and 30 secs on upper body, I up the weight AND the rest period on the next workout. How much I increase the rest period depends on how big of a jump in weight it FEELS like I am making - on laterals or flyes, 5 lbs per dumbbell is substantial for me so Iā€™ll increase it by 15 seconds; if itā€™s 5 lbs on bench, Iā€™ll probably increase it 5, maybe 10 seconds.

Also, I am lifting M - F, so I hit each body part twice every 8 days.

And I too am getting some shoulder pain. I think itā€™s the BTN work and maybe the WG bench, but my shoulder doesnā€™t bother me when I am benching. However, for some reason, incline db bench can kill my right shoulder if I donā€™t warm it up like a sumbitch.

Overall, I am liking this routine and donā€™t dread hitting the weights, which is nice. The pumps are incredible and this is the first time in my life where I actually feel my quads doing the work when I squat (with a whopping 145 lbs).

Tyler23 wrote:

" I actually feel my quads doing the work when I squat (with a whopping 145 lbs). "

You can feel good about your number. When my right shoulder heals i will test squatting with half a bar. Well i might have to use 2 10 pounds dumbells. The nice thing is working out only my left(weak)side now it seems the neural connection improved alot. I am curious where my numbers will end up.

About quads, it seems i allways feel my glutes so i searched for quads isolation and found sissy squat (other than the obvious leg ext). It happens months ago i was starting with a few as a warmup without knowing the name.

1 of the advantage is there is a version we can do at home without the apparatus.

Yes, I love sissy squats. Iā€™ve never really cared for the free-standing version and work out at home now, so I would love to start them again. Iā€™m just having a hard time shelling out $200 for something that looks like I should be able to make myself.

Oh yeah, and on the last set of squats last week, I literally almost started crying.

About shoulder pain. The way i was doing Upright row (how i learned from books) might be problematic. Below is a link to a safer way
http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/far-away-upright-row

After going through a week of this, I find this workout style flawed. Why spend so many sets to get and maintain the pump, when I can do the same thing, more efficiently with a superset or two? I do feel a pump all through this training style, but it isnt anywhere near as skin tearing as a good superset. I have no doubt this worked well for Serge. Possibly because he did have a lot of time on his hands. Or maybe from his upbringing, doing a lot of hard labor?

I think this training style is good if you have no job, and a shit ton of extra time on your hands. Iā€™m at the gym by 5am, and dont have the time to come back in the evening, so I do it all in one sitting (with that 15min break), even then, it takes about two hours to complete, then I have to shower and get ready for school. It is definently not optimal for someone with a busy life.

So, going back to a more Dorian Yates style. Was an nice experiment, but iā€™ve felt better results, in half the time.

[quote]kidRiot wrote:
After going through a week of this, I find this workout style flawed. Why spend so many sets to get and maintain the pump, when I can do the same thing, more efficiently with a superset or two? I do feel a pump all through this training style, but it isnt anywhere near as skin tearing as a good superset. I have no doubt this worked well for Serge. Possibly because he did have a lot of time on his hands. Or maybe from his upbringing, doing a lot of hard labor?

I think this training style is good if you have no job, and a shit ton of extra time on your hands. Iā€™m at the gym by 5am, and dont have the time to come back in the evening, so I do it all in one sitting (with that 15min break), even then, it takes about two hours to complete, then I have to shower and get ready for school. It is definently not optimal for someone with a busy life.

So, going back to a more Dorian Yates style. Was an nice experiment, but iā€™ve felt better results, in half the time.

[/quote]

Good job for at least giving it a shot. Although in a week you cannot expect a fair representation of any programs results, HOWEVER you can see if you personally like it. Your routine has to be something you enjoy, I know I have went temporarily insane in the past on guys like the Menzters or Dorian Yates Low Volume Programs while some people profit from them.

There are countless unique routines like Sergeā€™s or Dorianā€™s which have helped 1000s of people worldwide . And just because they are different none of them are flawed because they work for who they work for. It is up to us as individual trainees to find what works for us.

I just finished week 1 and iā€™m really loving it. but yeah you do need to be able to dedicate 2 hours to the gym or whatever. I def wouldnā€™t be able to do this on a tight schedule.

[quote]Bradley Joe Kelly wrote:

[quote]kidRiot wrote:
After going through a week of this, I find this workout style flawed. Why spend so many sets to get and maintain the pump, when I can do the same thing, more efficiently with a superset or two? I do feel a pump all through this training style, but it isnt anywhere near as skin tearing as a good superset. I have no doubt this worked well for Serge. Possibly because he did have a lot of time on his hands. Or maybe from his upbringing, doing a lot of hard labor?

I think this training style is good if you have no job, and a shit ton of extra time on your hands. Iā€™m at the gym by 5am, and dont have the time to come back in the evening, so I do it all in one sitting (with that 15min break), even then, it takes about two hours to complete, then I have to shower and get ready for school. It is definently not optimal for someone with a busy life.

So, going back to a more Dorian Yates style. Was an nice experiment, but iā€™ve felt better results, in half the time.

[/quote]

Good job for at least giving it a shot. Although in a week you cannot expect a fair representation of any programs results, HOWEVER you can see if you personally like it. Your routine has to be something you enjoy, I know I have went temporarily insane in the past on guys like the Menzters or Dorian Yates Low Volume Programs while some people profit from them.

There are countless unique routines like Sergeā€™s or Dorianā€™s which have helped 1000s of people worldwide . And just because they are different none of them are flawed because they work for who they work for. It is up to us as individual trainees to find what works for us. [/quote]

100% true. I never discredit any training style.

I am curious. What is the main thing happening when we try to keep lots of blood in the area we just worked. I can think of 2.
Stretching the facias wich might make it easier for muscle growth.
Nutrients for muscles, i read that but honestly it is far fetched in my mind.

For about 2 months i was drinking a cup of milk in the gym locker just after working out to get an early start to my recovery process but i stopped that practice to avoid diverting blood for digestion. I also wait after abs work for the same reason. I also do my bike ride home relaxed for that purpose.

Thanks !

2 hours? Whats taking you guys so long? The whole point is to do it fastā€¦

should this volume be too high for someone, what of this article? My Greatest Gains Ever: Dave Tate

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
should this volume be too high for someone, what of this article? My Greatest Gains Ever: Dave Tate

[/quote]

good article.

That article confirms that focussing on heavier weight to progress is not necessairely the right path. I have been focussing on TUT before i read about Serge pump style and it works. Heavy weights forces a trainee to search for ways to unload, locking elbows/knees etcā€¦
Light loads forces us to search for ways to add stress, TUT ā€¦
Plus going lighter is safer. I just love that approach.
Like Mutu wrote " The whole point is to do it fastā€¦ "
We have to trust that volume works for us.
Well at least it is the way i understand it.
Thanks jp_dubya

[quote]BHappy wrote:
That article confirms that focussing on heavier weight to progress is not necessairely the right path. I have been focussing on TUT before i read about Serge pump style and it works. Heavy weights forces a trainee to search for ways to unload, locking elbows/knees etcā€¦
Light loads forces us to search for ways to add stress, TUT ā€¦
Plus going lighter is safer. I just love that approach.
Like Mutu wrote " The whole point is to do it fastā€¦ "
We have to trust that volume works for us.
Well at least it is the way i understand it.
Thanks jp_dubya[/quote]

agreed, but I can see the value of cycling training to focus on strength once all the gains of a volume phase are squeezed out, a strength cycle will help to be able to allow more load to subsequent volume phases.