Serge Nubret Pump Training

I love reading different training styles, from amateurs to the pro’s, and how each one varies slightly.

I’ve been doing a push/pull/legs split (6 days on, 1 off) for a while now. But today (mid workout week) decided to transistion to Serge Nubret Pump training style. I did not do the quads today, as I did legs yesterday. But I did do the chest workout, and I must say, I loved it.

I wasnt sure how to low to drop the weight for this style, so I went pretty low, and it worked out perfectly. For Flat BB Bench, I kept the reps around 15 to get my pump start, with 45sec rest. Throughout the workout, I loved using the lower weight, because Im a decent sized guy, and it felt pretty damn good seeing my whole upper body get pumped up, with a lower weight.

At the end of the workout, I did admire how pumped my body was. Not just my chest, but arms and everything. I also didnt feel super fatigued as I normally do. Definently looking forward to 2morrows workout.

I’m loving this style of training so far. It’s very tough, but I can already see results coming in.

I just completed my first week on this routine, substituting exercises so they fit my home equipment, and I have really enjoyed the workouts. The pump and DOMS are both incredible and with the high volume and density it really feels like I am working hard.

Although it is obviously far too early to comment on progress I really feel that I will make good gains on this programme.

I am logging my training on here, if anyone wants a look or has any advice for me that would be greatly appreciated. Just skip to page 2 - page 1 was a made-up transition phase I followed for 5 weeks to get used to my home equipment. You will notice I’m doing minimal leg work - I know it’s not ideal but my legs respond well to the basics and I find I get a lot of chafing problems when they go above 26in, which they are close to now.

Is anyone else logging their training? It would be useful to see how others are doing.

All the best.

[quote]Bradley Joe Kelly wrote:
If Behind the neck pull downs hurt, just move to the front. You might want to start including rotator cuff work and shoulder mobility work , but it is not a huge loss not being able to do it behind the neck.

P.S I found a arm photo of me that is pretty good to do a " transformation " picture with. 7 months…

I don’t think it is as a dramatic change as some of my photo comparisons, but my arms always took work.[/quote]

Awesome transformation still!
I think I was misunterpreting the instructions here:
http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/behind-neck-pulldown
Anyway, I stopped trying to retract so hard, while still keeping the shoulders somewhat back, and they felt really nice this time, no problem afterwards either.
I have also added 4 sets of the deadlift substitute on the lat pulldown!

knokkelezoute73 thanks for that precision about behind the neck pulldown. I learned 1 more thing.
Anyone feels the lower back recovery is an issue ?
I do not do the Bent Over Row to let my lower back rest. Instead i do seated pullback to work my rhomdoids.
The rests are getting shorter and shorter. It seems i am really over the transition/learning phase and positive results are accelerating.
Have a nice weekend !

So far i have completed 4 of these workouts, and I love it!

The hamstring DOMS was incredible yesterday, so i had to take a rest day, but the rest of it has been fine.

the thing i’ve really noticed is how amazing i feel for the rest of the day. This is a feeling i have never gotten with a high frequency or high intensity program. Its similar to the feeling of endorphins i get when i do cardio but it lasts throughout the whole day. It starts usually about an hour and a half after i train.

Anyways, i’m loving it so far! although it does take me about 2 hours to get through the whole routine in the gym.

Oh another positive with all the sets, and working on the “mind muscle connection” is it has really allowed me to get some solid pec involvement in my dumbbell pullovers and dumbbell flyes - something I’ve never been able to achieve before.

Wow, just finished Shoulders and Arms today…

I never felt, or a saw a pump that HUGE in my shoulders. Holy hell, I felt like god! And I LOVE the light weight. Every rep to perfection, nice and slow without locking out, to continue the pressure on my muscles.

But the Arms supersets, I wasnt a fan of. First off, why would you use do Bicep Cable Curls and Tri Pushdowns, before BB Curls and Tri Dips? I think it would have been better the other way. If you’re like me, and cant hit the gym twice a day, I recommend after your 10-15min rest, do isolation exercises for Bi’s and Tri’s. Doing BB Curls and Tri Dips after shoulders, even with rest, wasnt optimal as they require support and stability from your shoulders, which should be pretty fatigued already. Next time, I’ll do Preacher Curls with French Press, and see how that goes.

Again, it probably would have been better to work out again later in the day, as it describes, but I got shit to do. So I rested, then hit the weights. Still have a long, good pump, but not skin tearing at all. Next week, i’ll change up the arm exercises. I’ll probably leave the shoulders as is though. That was insane!

For those who’ve been on the routine for a few weeks, do you notice any signs of overtraining?

I’ve been doing this for a few weeks now and I’m noticing some lethargy and joint pain, even though I don’t really push to increase the weights that much. It’s tricky cause still kinda want to go to the gym everyday since I know I don’t have to, intensity-wise, make a max effort, just put in the work and get the reps in. Missing a workout would feel like missing practice which seems silly.
Maybe the volume is too much for me, even though I started with half the prescribed volume. Also going 6 days a week might be too much.
I’m thinking of switching things up a bit by changing into a push/pull/legs type of split, decreasing overall volume, switching a couple of days to home workouts with dips and pull-ups, and possibly adding a heavy low rep/volume lift first.

[quote]L-Dee wrote:
For those who’ve been on the routine for a few weeks, do you notice any signs of overtraining?

I’ve been doing this for a few weeks now and I’m noticing some lethargy and joint pain, even though I don’t really push to increase the weights that much.[/quote]

Are you taking fish oil daily? From what I understand, high dosages (6-20g) of fish oil a day works very well to combat joint pain from this kind of training style. Personally, I just throw a tablespoon of lemon-flavored fish oil into a chocolate protein shake in the morning. I’m not following this program, but I am training high-frequency high-volume.

[quote]L-Dee wrote:
For those who’ve been on the routine for a few weeks, do you notice any signs of overtraining?

I’ve been doing this for a few weeks now and I’m noticing some lethargy and joint pain, even though I don’t really push to increase the weights that much. It’s tricky cause still kinda want to go to the gym everyday since I know I don’t have to, intensity-wise, make a max effort, just put in the work and get the reps in. Missing a workout would feel like missing practice which seems silly.
Maybe the volume is too much for me, even though I started with half the prescribed volume. Also going 6 days a week might be too much.
I’m thinking of switching things up a bit by changing into a push/pull/legs type of split, decreasing overall volume, switching a couple of days to home workouts with dips and pull-ups, and possibly adding a heavy low rep/volume lift first.[/quote]

Your body probably isnt use it yet. It is stated as an intermediate training style. I recommend you lower the weight. I dont know you, or how much you weight you normally use for the exercises, but I dropped the weight exponentially. Im talking 15lbs DB Laterals, and 30lbs BB Curls. Each set, you should have enough juice to be able to make it to 15 or 20. Its all about Time Under Tension. The last two sets, I always go to fail, through Time Under Tension. Very slow reps, and really focusing on that stretch, and squeeze.

Im following this routine on a pretty big caloric deficit. I’ve been cutting for a few weeks, around 2750 calories a day, no carbs after noon, with a carb load every thursday. But again, i’ve been doing 6 days on, 1 off for quite sometime now.

Maybe reduce the volume for each exercise by one or two sets, and keep your weights low. That way, your CNS, body and mind will get use to training 6 days a week. Then you can go back to the normal volume. But when in doubt, lightweight baby!

“any signs of overtraining?”
Maybe from an old habit(reaching failure?).
Millions of people do it.
It is real simple.
It just takes time.
One mouthfull at a time they get fat.
There were great advices allready: more rest, less volume, less weight.
We can take our time we are not force to do all that is suggested from day 1. I started slowly and i get benefits. I do less volume period. I like training so more days off is not what i choosed but it is 1 option.
Anyways personaly we can apply what we choose. This is why we participate to this thread to help each other adjust and learn from each other.
Thanks for helping me to learn.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]L-Dee wrote:
For those who’ve been on the routine for a few weeks, do you notice any signs of overtraining?

I’ve been doing this for a few weeks now and I’m noticing some lethargy and joint pain, even though I don’t really push to increase the weights that much.[/quote]

Are you taking fish oil daily? From what I understand, high dosages (6-20g) of fish oil a day works very well to combat joint pain from this kind of training style. Personally, I just throw a tablespoon of lemon-flavored fish oil into a chocolate protein shake in the morning. I’m not following this program, but I am training high-frequency high-volume.[/quote]

Nope. I’ve taken high dose fish oil before for a lengthy period of time, several times and never noticed any allevation for joint pain…

[quote]kidRiot wrote:

[quote]L-Dee wrote:
For those who’ve been on the routine for a few weeks, do you notice any signs of overtraining?

I’ve been doing this for a few weeks now and I’m noticing some lethargy and joint pain, even though I don’t really push to increase the weights that much. It’s tricky cause still kinda want to go to the gym everyday since I know I don’t have to, intensity-wise, make a max effort, just put in the work and get the reps in. Missing a workout would feel like missing practice which seems silly.
Maybe the volume is too much for me, even though I started with half the prescribed volume. Also going 6 days a week might be too much.
I’m thinking of switching things up a bit by changing into a push/pull/legs type of split, decreasing overall volume, switching a couple of days to home workouts with dips and pull-ups, and possibly adding a heavy low rep/volume lift first.[/quote]

Your body probably isnt use it yet. It is stated as an intermediate training style. I recommend you lower the weight. I dont know you, or how much you weight you normally use for the exercises, but I dropped the weight exponentially. Im talking 15lbs DB Laterals, and 30lbs BB Curls. Each set, you should have enough juice to be able to make it to 15 or 20. Its all about Time Under Tension. The last two sets, I always go to fail, through Time Under Tension. Very slow reps, and really focusing on that stretch, and squeeze.

Im following this routine on a pretty big caloric deficit. I’ve been cutting for a few weeks, around 2750 calories a day, no carbs after noon, with a carb load every thursday. But again, i’ve been doing 6 days on, 1 off for quite sometime now.

Maybe reduce the volume for each exercise by one or two sets, and keep your weights low. That way, your CNS, body and mind will get use to training 6 days a week. Then you can go back to the normal volume. But when in doubt, lightweight baby![/quote]

My weights look pretty similar to yours. I don’t go close to failure either.
Yeah I think cutting the volume is what I’m going to do…

[quote]BHappy wrote:
“any signs of overtraining?”
Maybe from an old habit(reaching failure?).
Millions of people do it.
It is real simple.
It just takes time.
One mouthfull at a time they get fat.
There were great advices allready: more rest, less volume, less weight.
We can take our time we are not force to do all that is suggested from day 1. I started slowly and i get benefits. I do less volume period. I like training so more days off is not what i choosed but it is 1 option.
Anyways personaly we can apply what we choose. This is why we participate to this thread to help each other adjust and learn from each other.
Thanks for helping me to learn.[/quote]

That’s what always happens. cookie cutter programs rarely work for everyone which is why I didn’t do it exactly as laid out from the start anyway. Tweaking routines, instead overhauling them completely, is where the learning happens:)

L-Dee Many body pains are related to acidity. Most protein rich foods are acids/subject to generate pain. Vegetables are alkaline low calories and balancing the acid rich foods. You can add vegetables, search for alkaline foods it can only help. Many progress(i do) with about 0.8 gram protein per pound of body weight, so maybe less proteins might help but i do not want to start a debate here about optimal or amount needed.
Enjoy your weekend!

L-Dee, Ive had some shoulder discomfort in my weaker shoulder. The wide grip bench press, BTN pres and pulldown can all irritate the shoulder structures. After watching Serge Nubret bench on video, I realized he wasn’t neck pressing, but bringing the bar down to about the nipple line in spite of the super wide grip. I also corrected my behind-the-neck pulldown, and now it seems much better, HTH.

okay so with all these exercises you do 6-8 sets of 12 reps
and for upper body you take 30-60 seconds off between sets and for lower body you take 1-2 minutes off, but the goal is to get down to where youre taking 15 second breaks between sets?

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
okay so with all these exercises you do 6-8 sets of 12 reps
and for upper body you take 30-60 seconds off between sets and for lower body you take 1-2 minutes off, but the goal is to get down to where youre taking 15 second breaks between sets?[/quote]

No I don’t think so. I think it was just mentioned somewhere that sometimes that’s what some guys did. I believe some of the guys trained by Vince Gironda did that.

I think the standard progression for this routine is to add weight once you can hit the given sets and reps with the given rest period.

furo wrote
" I think it was just mentioned somewhere that sometimes that’s what some guys did. I believe some of the guys trained by Vince Gironda did that.

I think the standard progression for this routine is to add weight once you can hit the given sets and reps with the given rest period. "

I do not mean any disrespect but i think his interpretation is all wrong.
That sounds like 10 X 10 GVT.
We should reach " the given sets and reps with the given rest period. "
from day 1 with any luck(meaning we selected the right weight). Since the reps should be constant we can shorten rests instead of let’s say adding reps. If you find your weight selection was too heavy you might do longer rests or less reps.
Never reach physical failure.
You will be training soon. Eat small portions frequently if that image helps you. Do not get in a buffet style frame of mind.
It took me time to " get in the groove " but today i might say:

  • pick a light weight
  • do 2 sets of 12 to warm up
  • forget about adding weight for your next 4-6 work sets.
  • find a short enough rest time so you feel you are working out not just using baby weights filming some fake video.
    First i posted about how i modified reps # and i was suggested use the 12 reps constantly and use the same weight constantly. I am glad that i listened. You will know when to add weight you brain will ask why rest?

Personally i try to start with the minimum suggested rests times 30/60 sec(legs), cut down to 25, 20, 15, 12, why rest ? Well i answer to sip water so i am forced to add weight.
This was a good deal !
I gave you my 2 cents for free.
Hopefully some others will send money your way.
All the best !

[quote]BHappy wrote:
furo wrote
" I think it was just mentioned somewhere that sometimes that’s what some guys did. I believe some of the guys trained by Vince Gironda did that.

I think the standard progression for this routine is to add weight once you can hit the given sets and reps with the given rest period. "

I do not mean any disrespect but i think his interpretation is all wrong.
That sounds like 10 X 10 GVT.
We should reach " the given sets and reps with the given rest period. "
from day 1 with any luck(meaning we selected the right weight). Since the reps should be constant we can shorten rests instead of let’s say adding reps. If you find your weight selection was too heavy you might do longer rests or less reps.
Never reach physical failure.
You will be training soon. Eat small portions frequently if that image helps you. Do not get in a buffet style frame of mind.
It took me time to " get in the groove " but today i might say:

  • pick a light weight
  • do 2 sets of 12 to warm up
  • forget about adding weight for your next 4-6 work sets.
  • find a short enough rest time so you feel you are working out not just using baby weights filming some fake video.
    First i posted about how i modified reps # and i was suggested use the 12 reps constantly and use the same weight constantly. I am glad that i listened. You will know when to add weight you brain will ask why rest?

Personally i try to start with the minimum suggested rests times 30/60 sec(legs), cut down to 25, 20, 15, 12, why rest ? Well i answer to sip water so i am forced to add weight.
This was a good deal !
I gave you my 2 cents for free.
Hopefully some others will send money your way.
All the best !

[/quote]

In the article it says:

“Serge rested between 30 seconds to one minute between upper body exercises and between one to two minutes on lower body exercises. Occasionally, he would start paring down rest periods by 15 seconds every two weeks to get more work in during a shorter amount of time.”

To me that sounds like lowering the rest periods wasn’t his standard form of progression, it was just something he did every now and again.

It also says:

“Serge always did 6 or more sets of 12 reps, using a weight for the first set he could likely lift for 20 reps”

Now it says he always did 12 reps (I’m sure there would be a little variation, but that’s what it says). If you keep the rest periods and reps relatively constant, as it says, the only obvious way to progress would be to add weight. That’s my interpretation anyway.

I appreciate that you have found something that works for you, but I was just trying to convey what I believe the original article says.

Bradley Joe Kelly, if you read this, it would be nice to hear your thoughts on progression on this programme.