T Nation

Separation of Church and State



The former Pennsylvania senator also explained that Jefferson's â??wall of separationâ?? was meant to describe â??how the First Amendment was designed to protect churches from the government and nothing more.â?? But Kennedy's â??misuse of the phrase,â?? he argued, â??constructed a high barrier that ultimately would keep religious convictions out of politics in a place where our founders had intended just the opposite.â??


This is indisputable


Kennedy had the right idea.


You mean the magic book about men making large bodies of water suddenly defy all known laws of physics SHOULDNT be what our entire legal system is based on?

How dare you. You'll be set on fire for all eternity when you die - lets hope preying on your fear of the unknown will terrorize you to my way of thinking!


You just may get it one day, but not today.


You are the worst condescending asshole on T-Nation. Never ask me what problem I have with christians, ever.


I wasn't asking. I am however genuinely sorry you feel that way and to the extent that I may have actually contributed to that view I do apologize.


Its cool man. You're living your story, I'm living mine. Sorry to snap like that.


Fair enough dude though I doubt we've locked horns for the lat time. In case you have doubts I was being serious BTW. Condescension is self righteousness. I do not ever want to come off that way. I suspect I do fail on occasion though so when someone says that to me it makes me stop and think.


What exactly do you think I'll "get" one day?


You must be a fundamentalist...however, I will point out that Kennedy and the Senator were both Catholics. Much different. Your ignorance about Catholicism is humourous, because you are attempting to point out that Catholics are ignorant.


Says the man that miss portrays the beliefs of a Senator and a President.


Christians dont believe a man parted a sea by raising a staff?


No, they believe God did through Moses and that he had to use a staff in order to do it. So do Jews and Muslims. But, we don't believe in magic, a magic book, and what does parting a sea have to do with the fact that our moral laws are perfect. And, that the Catholic Church has one of the best legal systems as well as oldest legal systems in the world? One that America is based on, that England and most of Europe is based on, and that some countries live by partially or whole. And, that creating canon law created jurisprudence as well as other things that people take for granted.

I think you need to shut up now.


Separation of church and state is the most abused quote attributed to somewhere from which it did not come.


For those who argue against separation of church and state (or argue that it has simply gone too far), what changes specifically would you like to see?

What should be different?


They want theocracy, and it must make special accommodations for Christianity and when it suits them, Judaism. Nothing else though.


I'm all for people practicing their religion freely but I don't think it has place in politics. It just seems that religion in politics slows down progress as in the case of stem cell research or the allows for a man like Scott Roeder to use the pathetic argument "I wanted to save the children" in defending his cold blooded murder of Dr. George Tiller.

By allowing religion into politics it forces those who don't follow or believe to be subject to those religious laws which isn't fair. If you don't believe in premarital sex - fine don't have it - but don't tell other people they can't :slightly_smiling:


Making giant body of water defy all known laws of physics = magic

Fruit that grants knowledge of good and evel upon digestion = magic

Piece of wood turning into snake = magic

ALL of the things you believe in based on your "faith" are magic.

Further, your moral laws are perfect? Please, dont make me laugh. Bible condones slavery, patriarcy, homophobia, and murder ("Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live").

But, like all the other believers-in-nonsense, you stomp your feet and yell "THE BIBLE IS INERRANT, OUR MORALS ARE PERFECT, WE ARE RIGHT", without any reason, proof, or rational beyond your own 'faith', which is your own personal choice.

What absurdities you choose to believe in (for no reason other than you choose to) should not, in any-fucking-way, affect the laws of the country I live in.


"Perfect moral laws" = laws derived from an ancient magic book filled with impossible tales which have NEVER been duplicated or confirmed EVER, saying that our morals come from a powerful man up in the sky no one has ever been able to prove exists.

Brother Chris, ever wonder why NONE of the 'miracles' in the bible happen today? Ever wonder why we never see a video or documentary of someone performing miracles? Did God suddenly stop giving people the ability to speak to animals or fly?

Or maybe, just maybe, none of that shit ever happened and your faith is based on legend and myth rather than historical fact?

Start doing logical backflips to explain why your god was SO heavily involved with humanity in the bible, why god talked directly to so many people and passed stone tablets down and set bushes on fire, but ever since humanity developed a method of testing the validity of statements, no such accounts have ever been confirmed.

"Uh, uh, god sent his son and he died so, um, like, god just said whatever after that. He just decided to stop intervening as egregiously, thats why you read about so many big miracles in the bible and none have happened since global communication became possible!"

That, or your bible is full of lies and nonsense.

Guess you'll have to tell me I'll be punished when I die or your life is filled with joy and peace, right?