[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Very cool to hear where particular folks started, and the paths they chose to get them to their current levels of progress. I always felt like I missed out on my best year too (started at 20), so it’s nice to know I’m in good company -lol
Hopefully some of the younger folks will actually read your above responses, good stuff.
S[/quote]
Thanks Stu. It’s also good to hear that I’m not the only one who missed out on their prime growing years and yet still made progress. Hopefully that should encourage others who might be in the same boat to not place limitations upon themselves due to their starting age. Everyone can improve on their starting point and can significantly alter their body comp and build muscle mass.
Good luck on your competition by the way. I’ve been reading your thread, but didn’t have much to add since I haven’t done so myself yet.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Good stuff sento.
See, having a thread about you is better than having a thread about me, as your posts are actually coherent lol
Now, I realize this has nothing to do with bbing, what what role does MA play in your life at this point, and what things have you learned /what traits have you acquired while training for martial arts that you consider to still be helpful for you these days ?
I still enjoy watching MMA on tv, still talk shop with friends who are into MA (wrestlers, former training partners, my instructors, etc…), and a couple times a year still attend a seminar or go down and train at my old dojo.
As far as what I learned…probably the most important lesson that I learned IMO was that 90% (probably even more) of the limitations that we think we have are actually self imposed. The thing is that you actually have to push yourself until you reach your previously thought limits and then beyond to realize this.
I learned to ignore discomfort and pain (within reason of course) and continue pushing myself until I have reached my goal.
I learned that failure is a state of mind, and that most people lose the battle because of mental reasons, not physical ones. It is the mind that quits, the body is basically capable of continuing to push itself until it literally drops dead.
In fact, the mind is so powerful and has so much control over the body’s performance that special forces personnel are actually taught to literally say “I’m stabbing you. You’re dying. You’re dying,” over and over again while they are actually stabbing an enemy soldier (this is particularly important in enemy sentry disposal). The reason is that, unless the enemy soldier’s brain actually makes the association with what they feel and what is actually happening, the soldier will continue to fight until their body either loses too much blood or their organs start to shut down (depending on where the knife wounds occur). However, if their brain makes the association it will go into “I’m dying” mode and will shut down much sooner.
All of that knowledge and experience combined help me to not only train with pretty much unlimited intensity (which would be the #1 trait that I got out of MA), but to also understand how to help others push themselves past their self imposed limitations. It also makes me much, much less paranoid about how hard it is safe to push myself and my clients (assuming that they don’t have any pre-existing health conditions that would make doing so unsafe of course).
I also built quite a bit of core, grip, and hip strength; further honed my ability to control and coordinate my body; significantly improved my balance and flexibility; and improved my cardiovascular conditioning to the point where I still have well above average cardio, even without having done much of any (other than my morning fasted brisk walking of course) in quite a long time.
[/quote]
[quote]GuerillaZen wrote:
The Mighty Stu wrote:
Very cool to hear where particular folks started, and the paths they chose to get them to their current levels of progress. I always felt like I missed out on my best year too (started at 20), so it’s nice to know I’m in good company -lol
Hopefully some of the younger folks will actually read your above responses, good stuff.
S
Jesus guys! These threads are supposed to be helpful and uplifting, not depressing and unmotivating. I guess since I didn’t start until April 2007 at 285 fatass lbs and 25 yrs old I should just give up, huh?
All joking aside, great threads, and thanks to Sento, CC, and Gerdy all for sharing their knowledge.
My question pertains to my specific situation and I’m not embarrased to admit it. This is VERY much a newbie question, but these threads are about learning right?
What would be your advice for a guy who is 27, has just under two years of training under his belt and has spent the first whole year cutting from 285 to 200. I think built back up to 230, had my body fat checked and although it was an innacurate means it is 23 or so %. I want to be big, but it seems weird eating for size when I hear everyone saying that 20% or whatever is when you’ve let yourself go!?!?!? For the record, I am 6’3, 230 lbs.
[/quote]
Well, first how was your bf measured? If it was a bioimpedance device (like the handheld ones, or the ones you stand on) know that those are notoriously fickle (meaning that they are easily thrown off by a number of factors).
Second, to be perfectly honest not only is 20% not really that fat IMO (if it’s a true 20%), but your starting bf % probably has left it’s mark on your mentally. In other words, you most likely have a fear of returning to your starting bf, and thus might be more sensitive to increases in bf than someone who started out very lean (at least mentally sensitive).
That said, it’s also important to be comfortable with your level of fatness/leanness and if you feel that you’ve overstepped that comfort level, you might want to clean up your diet a bit and add in some additional caloric expenditure (cardio).
How often are you going up in weight (getting the full 10 reps without having to stop)? Remember that the name of the game is progression, but ultimately it’s progression in terms of weight used that matters.
Sure, volume can have it’s merits and if someone can handle more and still progress, there is no reason for them not to do so. But, you won’t find anyone curling the bar, squatting 135, pulling 200 and benching 95 who has huge bulging muscles (well, maybe Paul Dillet could have done that, but he’s not actually human, so let’s not even go there), no matter what kind of volume or fancy shmancy techniques they’re using.
On the other hand, it’s quite rare to see someone who can bench 4 plates, curl a plate and a quarter, squat 5 plates and pull 6 plates who isn’t a very muscular individual.
That’s not a coincidence IMO.
Whatever method allows you to get there the fastest (safely, no benefit in doing something that winds up injuring you) is the method you should use.
I’ve actually used a similar format to the one you are using (though I was only training 3 days per week at the time and combined the shoulders with the chest/tri day), and while it worked fairly well for me I’ve found that using too many “intensity techniques” isn’t the best way to improve strength wise (at least for me). Now, if you wanted to try using a DC style RP, that method I feel is superior for strength gains.
Honestly you probably don’t need it atm though.
In terms of tweaking your training…
What I’d suggest is that you pick a larger rep range (maybe something like 6-12 reps for upper body and 10-20 for lower body), pick a weight that you can hit the top of that range with and every time you do that exercise add weight (if you’re doing it multiple times per week, maybe start with 5 lbs per time for smaller movements and 10 lbs for larger movements).
The reps will naturally drop over time and eventually you’ll miss your rep range (maybe you’ll get 4-5 for an upper body exercise for example). At that time keep the weight the same and try to increase reps the next time. You might even want to do this again the next time if you just barely make it into your rep range. By this time though you should be using significantly heavier weights that you started with though.
Once you cannot make it into your rep range, even with a couple of tries to get the reps up, switch the exercise out for a comparable exercise for the same body part (i.e. flat bench to incline bench, not flat bench to cable cross overs) and repeat the process. When you eventually stall out, on this new one you can go to yet another variation, or go back to the first exercise (where you should be able to quickly match and surpass your previous bests on).
I don’t know exactly how many exercises you are doing for each body part, or how long a rest you have between training sessions for the same muscle group, so I can’t really give you specifics.
As far as diet, I have no idea what your diet currently looks like. But, I’d definitely suggest that you try something like carb cut-offs to keep your fat under control while eating big.
The theory is basically that as your day goes on you need less and less energy from carbs (except during and immediately following your workout if you workout in the evening) and that you really shouldn’t need much if any by the end of your day. So, you’d pick a “cut-off” time (say 6 o’clock) and after that time your meals would not contain any starchy carbs, only protein and green veggies.
Carbs get a bad name, but really as long as you understand how your body processes them, and that your body only has the ability to constructively use and store so much of them, they aren’t nearly as bad as they are made out to be.
Carb cut-offs is one very simple method of preventing yourself from taking in more than your body can use and store in a positive manner.
Finally, I’d also suggest doing some steady state cardio (either morning fasted, or immediately post resistance training). I don’t really want to get into a steady state vs. HIIT argument, so understand that this is just my preference. Really any kind of cardio is going to burn more calories and help keep your fat in check.
[quote]
Sento, CC, Gerdy, I am interested in everyone’s thoughts, but don’t want to post this is all the threads. Sorry for the length of this post.[/quote]
I’d love to hear C_C’s and Gerdy’s (Stu’s and 300’s if they want) thoughts as well.
Sento, thanks for the reply. I’ll try to answer some of your questions or things you were unsure of as best I can. To this point, I have felt I am able to recover and repeat the excercises more frequently than 1x per week because…
a) I am still relatively weak and using minimal weights (although they are as heavy as I can handle - I am not slacking)
b) I am only doing 3 movements for chest, back, and legs and 2 for bi’s, tri’s, and shoulders. Again, concentrating on one all-out set for ea. body part per movement.
Progress has been good. Weight used has gone up relatively quickly for some excercises and much slower on other, but I have hit either more reps or more weight on every excerice, every workout for the 4 weeks I’ve been using this program.
Some have gone up quickly. For ex, 4 weeks ago I back squatted 185 x 10-2 (10 straight, 2 rp to finish the 12) and last time I back squatted 225 x 8-3. Some excercises have been slower. 4 weeks ago I incline benched 145 x 10-2 and this week I inclined 155 x 9-3.
As you were saying, I realize that the biggest guys are generally the strongest and that is why I have been focussing on strength. However, in an honest moment I also realize that I am not eating for strength. My diet is pretty clean M-F. It is extremely light on calories I am sure. I tend to let go on the weekends and eat a lot of carbs and protein that is not as lean. However, I still rarely eat sugar or fried foods.
For breakfast this morning I at a 1/2 cup of oatmeal, 2 whole eggs, and 4 pieces of 95 % fat free turkey bacon. I took 2 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel to my workout. Post workout I had a shake w. 50 grams protein from a protein company owned by Dante, a handful of fresh blueberries, strawberries, a banana, a clementine, and 1 cup 2 % milk. For lunch I had a chicken salad made of 2 boneless skinless chicken breasts, and baby spinach. That is my day to this pt and is typical for me M-F.
Utilizing this diet I am neither gaining nor losing weight and that is why I felt the need to ask such a dorkish question. I don’t want to stagnate and waste my time. I am in this for progress, after all.
MY BF was read by one of those things you stand on. I realize it is innacurate. I merely was using it as a guide. A while back I had it read at 212 lbs, 163 lbs lean mass, 20,something or other % fat. This time was 227 lbs, 176 lean mass and 23 % fat. Anyways, I could care less about bodyfat and whether it is 20-23-26 or whatever is irrelevent to me. I was just looking for a measure of where I stood. I definately don’t look fat. Maybe just a little heabier that “skinny-fat” or what have you.
If I missed anything let me know. I teach high-school and being President’s day, I am pretty damn bored.
[quote]That’s one of the reasons why I am so adamant about steering people away from unsubstantiated programs on this forum.
At some point Prof X (thanks for your unending insistence for others to look at real world results X), and others got through to me that it didn’t matter what research studies said. What mattered was the actual flesh and blood examples of who had actually been successful building muscle.[/quote]
This can’t be emphasized enough.
If someone small is giving you a program, it’s a load of crap used to lighten your wallet.
[quote]I did Bill Starr’s 5x5 (a good intermediate program IMO),
[/quote]
So are you a fan of Rippetoe also? What’s your opinion of the “Starting Strength” model for beginners? The DC guys have it posted on a sticky over at intense muscle.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
I did Bill Starr’s 5x5 (a good intermediate program IMO),
So are you a fan of Rippetoe also? What’s your opinion of the “Starting Strength” model for beginners? The DC guys have it posted on a sticky over at intense muscle. [/quote]
I think Starting Strength is a great program to teach a beginner the basic lifts. It’s also based around progression, which is a must. Rippetoe has very good explanations of the lifts (and videos of at least some), discusses plateaus and one method of how to approach them, and even has a section on the importance of diet.
All in all I think it’s a good program, and a beginner would likely make good progress on it (provided they also eat enough).
[quote]GuerillaZen wrote:
Sento, thanks for the reply. I’ll try to answer some of your questions or things you were unsure of as best I can. To this point, I have felt I am able to recover and repeat the excercises more frequently than 1x per week because…
a) I am still relatively weak and using minimal weights (although they are as heavy as I can handle - I am not slacking)
b) I am only doing 3 movements for chest, back, and legs and 2 for bi’s, tri’s, and shoulders. Again, concentrating on one all-out set for ea. body part per movement.
Progress has been good. Weight used has gone up relatively quickly for some excercises and much slower on other, but I have hit either more reps or more weight on every excerice, every workout for the 4 weeks I’ve been using this program.
Some have gone up quickly. For ex, 4 weeks ago I back squatted 185 x 10-2 (10 straight, 2 rp to finish the 12) and last time I back squatted 225 x 8-3. Some excercises have been slower. 4 weeks ago I incline benched 145 x 10-2 and this week I inclined 155 x 9-3.
As you were saying, I realize that the biggest guys are generally the strongest and that is why I have been focussing on strength. However, in an honest moment I also realize that I am not eating for strength. My diet is pretty clean M-F. It is extremely light on calories I am sure. I tend to let go on the weekends and eat a lot of carbs and protein that is not as lean. However, I still rarely eat sugar or fried foods.
For breakfast this morning I at a 1/2 cup of oatmeal, 2 whole eggs, and 4 pieces of 95 % fat free turkey bacon. I took 2 scoops of surge workout fuel to my workout. Post workout I had a shake w. 50 grams protein from a protein company owned by Dante, a handful of fresh blueberries, strawberries, a banana, a clementine, and 1 cup 2 % milk. For lunch I had a chicken salad made of 2 boneless skinless chicken breasts, and baby spinach. That is my day to this pt and is typical for me M-F.
[/quote]
Was the handful comprised of blueberries and strawberries? Or was it a handful of each?
PWO is really the time when you can safely take in the most amount of carbs without having to worry about them being stored as fat. I usually get in around 120g of carbs immediately PWO. Though, I probably wouldn’t suggest that you start out that high, maybe something like 80 on your leg days and 60 on the other workout days. You can always bump it up if you need more.
What would the rest of your day’s food intake look like?
How long have you been doing this diet, and have you checked your bf both before you started it and since you’ve been doing it for a while? If your weight hasn’t changed, yet you are getting noticeably leaner (and leaning out is your goal), then you are in fact building muscle and losing fat. So, you are making progress in that sense.
On the other hand, if your goal is maximal muscle mass you want the scale to be moving in the upwards direction (even if that’s at a fairly slow rate so as to not overdo it in the bf department, shoot for something like 2-4 lbs per month).
If your body comp hasn’t changed since you started the diet, then congratulations, you’ve found your maintenance caloric needs. Now it’s just a matter of adjusting your calories to suit your goals. Try adding 500 calories per day to what you’re already eating and spread your meals out over 6-7 meals per day (spread protein evenly over all meals, taper your carb intake off as the day goes on, on days when you need more energy, keep the carbs high and fats low, and on the days you don’t need as much, keep the fats higher and carbs lower).
Trust me, you’re doing just fine. You’ve put on 13 lbs of muscle and only 3 lbs of fat. That’s a very good ratio and if you keep that up you’re going to notice a big time change in the way your body looks in 6 months to a year.
