Self Medicating - T3

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
so is there anything wrong with taking 50-75mcg (all at once) every morning upon waking? - a couple people mentioning time release is worrying me a bit but i never heard of BB’ers using time release
[/quote]

What are you talking about? BBers to my knowledge aren’t shooting up T3 in back rooms.

T3 is something that you want to be optimal at all times of day, not something you spike during training (i.e. insulin). Slow-release is best because T3 has a very short half-life.

hijack - @VT - reason I didn’t see it was because I was looking through DirectLabs, not labcorp itself. Thanks, I’ll definitely mention this next doc visit /hijack

[quote]scj119 wrote:
What are you talking about? BBers to my knowledge aren’t shooting up T3 in back rooms.

[/quote]

i am talking about BBers on cycle. 25 mcg t3 per day is not uncommonly used to limit fat gain/increase protein turn over rate… i never once recall seeing some one point out taking 12.5 mcg every 12 hours

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Slow-release is best because T3 has a very short half-life.
[/quote]
this is what i was wondering about… the basic stuff i have read suggests the half life is 24 hours but if you say differently i believe you

EDIT: ok, i was getting confused w/ biological half life. also 95% seems to be absorbed within 4 hours.

i do intermittent fasting and thought it was best to take tiromel on an empty stomach so ive been taking 2 doses per day and waiting at least an hour to eat (after the second dose). how have you been going about meal/t3 timing?

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Slow-release is best because T3 has a very short half-life.
[/quote]
this is what i was wondering about… the basic stuff i have read suggests the half life is 24 hours but if you say differently i believe you

EDIT: ok, i was getting confused w/ biological half life. also 95% seems to be absorbed within 4 hours.

i do intermittent fasting and thought it was best to take tiromel on an empty stomach so ive been taking 2 doses per day and waiting at least an hour to eat (after the second dose). how have you been going about meal/t3 timing?[/quote]

I don’t take t3 myself (yet anyway). It’s something I have done a lot of research in because there is an extensive history of thyroid problems in my family.

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Slow-release is best because T3 has a very short half-life.
[/quote]
this is what i was wondering about… the basic stuff i have read suggests the half life is 24 hours but if you say differently i believe you

EDIT: ok, i was getting confused w/ biological half life. also 95% seems to be absorbed within 4 hours.

i do intermittent fasting and thought it was best to take tiromel on an empty stomach so ive been taking 2 doses per day and waiting at least an hour to eat (after the second dose). how have you been going about meal/t3 timing?[/quote]

I don’t take t3 myself (yet anyway). It’s something I have done a lot of research in because there is an extensive history of thyroid problems in my family.
[/quote]

ok so regardless of meal timing, would you say if i were taking 75mcg per day it would be best to take 25mcg every 8 hours and in the the case of taking 100mcg every day, 25 mcg every 6 hours would be best?

I think once/daily is fine with slow release… if you feel big swings between low/high energy then split up the doses and take more frequently.

Not really qualified to comment more than that. There are plenty of resources both in this forum and on the google-machine if you want to read more in depth.

ok so finally got a doc who will work with me…

i am supposed to get blood work tomorrow morning but i took 100 mcg generic cytomel at 10 am sunday morning - yes all in one dose, didnt notice any difference while spreading out the dose.

how long should i wait to get blood work? ive seen any where from 24 hours to a week!

if i went tomorrow morning, it would be roughly 48 hours since my last dose…

thanks

Your blood test will be all out of wack but isn’t that what you want? You are seeing if your reverse t3 has decreased…Tiromel is from Turkey and is a good brand. I would tell the doctor what you did and why and so he will be able to read the lab report better and perhaps prescribe you a t3 maintenance dose where you can come off it and see where your thyroid ends up…if your RT3 is low now, then you should be able to try a t4/t3 combination. Your cortisol was most likely high which is why you weren’t converting very well (like me). Good luck!

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
ok so finally got a doc who will work with me…

i am supposed to get blood work tomorrow morning but i took 100 mcg generic cytomel at 10 am sunday morning - yes all in one dose, didnt notice any difference while spreading out the dose.

how long should i wait to get blood work? ive seen any where from 24 hours to a week!

if i went tomorrow morning, it would be roughly 48 hours since my last dose…

thanks[/quote]

That sounds like a mega dose of T3 only. Have you started on lower doses and worked your way up? Or did you start from 100mcg? I have been told to usually wait 4-8 weeks until everything settles and then get blood work to check what levels are like.

@ retinoid
i dont actually use cytomel, i DO use tiromel. i just say cytomel for simplicity…

@ iroc
yes i worked my way up to 100 mcg. i felt no difference in energy when taking 4 separate doses compared to 1

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
@ retinoid
i dont actually use cytomel, i DO use tiromel. i just say cytomel for simplicity…

[/quote]

I know…

bit of an update.

just got prescribed armour at 30 mg the first week and 60 mg (1 full tab) split into two daily doses

each 60 mg tab has 38 mcg T4 and only 9 mcg T3!

hallowed said she was taking 70 mcg t3 a day and i probably have 80 lbs on her!

i know this is my first prescription (start low and adjust) but this seems a little ridiculous

anyway, just wanted to see if any one had some input


Hallowed is not, to my knowledge, also supplementing with T4.

Here is a conversion chart for you. It is for the RLC labs products, but they either have the same ratios as Armour or are within a few mcg.

So, one grain is the equivalent of 25mcg Cytomel. You can approximate how much you will eventually end up using based on this. Typically, after the one grain starting dose, many wait anywhere from 4 - 6 weeks on the subsequent dosages to allow T4 levels to appropriately stabilize before retesting and planning the next move.

I assume you have not done any leg work into finding out the cause of your RT3 issues, but I hope you find that the T4 in your medication converts appropriately.

regarding the t4, i thought it was useless considering conversion is the problem.

i asked for a slow-release t3 only and got some obscure answer.

im clueless what the rt3 could be from. i figured it was just stuck there from excessive low-carb starvation dieting

also at the bottom of the chart it reads “each grain contains 9 mcg of t3 and 38 mcg of t4”

by saying 1 grain is equivalent to 25 mcg t3, do you mean that is the case after the t4 is properly converted? - again conversion being the main issue

EDIT: thanks

Yes, the 25mcg assumes proper conversion.

If you haven’t gotten to the root cause of your RT3 issue, I doubt dessicated thyroid will prove itself to be an effective treatment plan. I would imagine that adding more T4 to your body would only exacerbate your conversion issue and would clog up the potential activity of the direct T3.

I believe you mentioned you had little success with treating RT3 with selenium, iodine and other nutritional interventions… the next step might be to investigate your adrenals – some find RT3 issues are the result of improper cortisol levels. By either boosting cortisol (my case) or lowering it, some are able to get better conversion.

See if you can get your hands on a diurnal cortisol spit kit.

In the mean time, keep tabs on how your symptoms progress from self-medicating with T3 to the new Armour.

How have you been feeling as of late?

i asked for a cortisol test and was ignored. i was told my adrenals were fine but never saw my actual cortisol numbers… i guess i could edit my next lab - hypothetically.

i feel the same as i did 6 weeks ago before starting. honestly, i can take 100 mcg at a time and not “feel” anything. i have been taking 15 grams glutamine to help with digestive issues but it doesnt seem to be helping (yet at least)

i had a feeling i wasnt absorbing and my doc said cytomel and tiromel often dont absorb well but that’s the first of me hearing that

also no changes in body comp, weight, or strength in the last 6 weeks while consistently taking 75-100 mcg per day

could taking the cytomel under my tongue (how i was told to take armour) help with absorption maybe?

I have read T3 is a fickle bitch for absorption, as well. I try to take my dessicated thyroid product on an empty stomach ~1 hour before meals because of this, though I know some places (STTM, for instance) advise only avoiding certain nutrients/supplements and that eating with food can create a “timed release” effect for T3. Given that many seem to have problems with Armour since it converted to a cellulose binder (used to be dextrose, I believe), I am not sure how well that actually holds up. Some people don’t do well on time-released T3 because of this, as well.

To be safe, I do what the manufacturer advises in the package insert – empty stomach. I also chew up my medication thoroughly before swallowing with a large glass of water to do as much as I can to help my body out. It has only been a few weeks, but my temp is creeping up and I am dropping weight.

If you do not do the same, that might be something to consider. If you have already tried this, the sublingual approach might work – certainly, some claim greater success with this method, but I am not sure how much just gets mixed with spit and swallowed.

You can also speak with your doctor about switching to a dessicated thyroid product that does NOT contain a cellulose binder (Westhroid does not, IIRC), but again, this doesn’t do much to solve the T4 → RT3 issues you might experience on these sorts of products.

Since you are still new to Armour, it will take a little bit of time before you know how well it is working… so whatever you decide to do stick with it for the time being and remember to be as consistent with your dosing schedule as possible.

thyroid-rt3.com states that RT3 can take upwards of 12 weeks to clear receptors, so patience seems to be key as far as that goes.

You can always purchase your own diurnal cortisol kit via the website I referred to on the previous page if you want to know for sure.

i will ask for a non-cellulose bond product. thanks i didnt know that…

i always take on an empty stomach - i do IFing so usually 3-4 tabs spread out from the time i wake up until 5-6 pm

as for rt3, i tested at 11 on a 11-32 scale about 2 weeks ago - which was after 6 weeks at 75-100 mcg a day although im not really sure how uch was being absorbed. but since the rt3 dropped i assume at least some was put to use

im def gonna get a cortisol test done soon i just hate coughing up the cash lol

thanks again

EDIT: my sweat still smells like ammonia PWO if that makes any difference

question about rt3 clearing the receptors

i wasnt aware that rt3 bonds to the receptors! i just thought it floated around inactively.

am i understanding you correctly saying that rt3 blocks t3 from working?

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
question about rt3 clearing the receptors

i wasnt aware that rt3 bonds to the receptors! i just thought it floated around inactively.

am i understanding you correctly saying that rt3 blocks t3 from working?[/quote]

Yup.

edit:

Also, your decreased RT3 levels suggest that the Tironel WAS being absorbed and put to use (though full labs are always more helpful) – you have managed to suppress your thyroid’s output of T4, which means there is less of that hormone available to be converted to RT3. This can be seen in blood work after 6 weeks but, as stated, the degree of improvement you would experience from this would have depended on how much RT3 your body produced before (i.e., how much was floating around and “clogging up” the receptors).

Once those receptors start to clear up, you may very well find yourself needing less thyroid hormone to alleviate your symptoms.

Of course, this was dependent upon you maintaining a T3-only protocol. You and your doc will have to see what happens now that you have reintroduced T4 to your body.