for real world self defense have look at krav maga or anything by Geoff Thompson
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
edgecrusher,
If you are looking for a self-defense system that really works, check out Lysak’s Sento Method, or iCAT. They will teach you everything from active combat (grappling, striking, street effective tactics), to cerebral self defense, postural self defense, psychological self defense, and modern weaponry.
But, although there are some good books on Sento, I would agree with the other guys who have said that you must get in and put in your time. You really can’t learn how to effectively defend yourself from a book (it could make a good supplementary training aid though).
Scrappy,
I completely agree with the effectiveness of combative sports for dealing with the “active combat” phase of a fight. But, they don’t really address any of the pre-active phases. In other words, fights seldom occur like a sporting event. Most often they begin with a surprise attack, and/or some sort of verbal assault.
Therefore, one must train these “real world” components into their training. Having both fighters acknowledge that they’re ready, then come out and touch gloves in a “sporting” gesture, and then step back and assume their fighting stance of choice does not accurately simulate a real combative situation. One must involve the verbal component, postural component, awareness, etc… components into their training if they hope to have the best chances of defending themselves.
Good training,
Sentoguy[/quote]
But man, everyone who does a combat sport knows this cause every decent combat sport coach talks about it here and there cause either the coach or athlete themselves started out in some other martial art that talked about the street. Most people go through a few martial arts schools before they find one they believe in…I mean, I don’t know how to get the point across. Okay, maybe You have it backward.
Most combative sports guys are a little nuts, most wish there were no rules and they just went out there to attack the other guy. Most are HELD BACK by the ufc/pride style rules and need to think in the ring…you see what I’m saying. A street fight is EASIER in the sense that they have all those attributes and NO RESTRICTIONS. It’s the first day of class and you ask your coach about self defense. He tells you the obvious.
You have a way better chance of winning if you attack first and keep attacking and don’t stop and hurt the person the quickest way you can. If the groin is there or a bite or an eye rip or punch or choke. The point of training is so that the attack and the response to attack are ingrained. You don’t block a jab you move a little and throw a cross. When a pro fighter gets attacked he doesn’t shit the bed cause there was no bell, or try to touch gloves with the opponent or anything like that. The fight is usually 3-10 seconds in the case of an ego fight.
in the case of a true attack by a predator looking for your money or your life then it’s different. If a pro fighter isn’t knocked out or killed by a blind side right away, then they will likely recover and beat the shit out of the attacker. Or, the attacker was smart, hid in the closet, you got home, went to sleep and he killed you and you never knew it…but what the hell training would help with that? nothing. I mean, why is it that people think a combat sports man will shit his pants when his opponenet tries to kick his nuts, head butt him, bite him…
Of course that’s gonna happen…we’ve all been in fights since we were little kids…We’re boys, we fight, fights always turn dirty, no surprise. I’m not an idiot who senses a fight and thinks, which technique am I gonna do or hey don’t bite me. I’m gonna try to take the guy out asap. My bjj coach was light years simpler than any street style I ever had when i asked him about street fights. How to respond to verbal assaults that are obviously going to progress. How to ATTACK and not go into a fighting stance.
I mean, everyone knows the same shit. From pros to karate guys, everyone knows how to hurt a body. It’s who does damage first and the sports help with that. The biggest issue is people thinking they are lethal cause they learned a lethal throat strike. You have to pull it off and usually the guy attacking you is on top of you before you know it. So it’s best to practice that.
Do you think if some guy starts walking toward BJ Penn or whatever pro fighter cursing and using fighting words that BJ doesn’t see that clown in slow motion and just absolutely own the guy? At the same time, some total psycho stalks a pro fighter with the intent to kill him with a gun, if the guy isn’t a complete idiot he’s gonna kill whoever he wants. This guy has no fear of jail, and is NUTS…what can you do with that but hope he makes a noise just before the attack or screws up or something. I mean…What am I missing? Why do you think all that how to carry yourself, biting, verbal assualt stuff is a secret no one knows. It’s not.
If you’d like to see some funny shit of what NOT to do. Check this out. Make sure to watch the video clips.
First start out with the Karate kid. Watch it repeatedly and learn from it. Practice extensively on “wax the floor” and “spank the monkey”.
Next rent the street fighter movie. Mimic everything you see.
When you are ready, rent Mortal Kombat. This is where you learn a lot of advanced moves.
Make sure you have mastered all these skills before moving to probably the most advanced form of martial arts there is. Anime martial arts.
Dragon Ball Z, Escaflowne, Gundam, Chobits, Pokemon, Love Hina.
If you see it on TV, you can do it.
[quote]edgecrusher wrote:
Any of you guys have a recommendation on a Self D system/book that isn’t some over-complicated mallarky and has a name I can pronouce. Seriously, I did a few searches and there’s more BS out there than there is in all of India. I’ve seen TFT on this site, but it looks about as over-hyped as Bruce Lee. [/quote]
Bas Rutten. His book is good, his teachings are sound. There are other good ones but that one is a pretty good all-round approach. He has videos too.
You need more than a book/dvd however it is a good place to start.
Try trsdirect.com has many self defense tapes and DVDS, geared towards hand-to-hand, edged weapons and firearms. Most will teach you two or three movements which can and do end anything with anyone. How you practice and prepare is up to you.
Stinker
I’ve seen almost all of their sets. Which ones did you think were best?
I thought most of them were not realistic. The supposed attacker is doing things a dummy wouldn’t do. A couple of the guys seemed to have some nice tricks, but mostly I thought their stuff was not very good.
[quote]Stinker wrote:
Try trsdirect.com has many self defense tapes and DVDS, geared towards hand-to-hand, edged weapons and firearms. Most will teach you two or three movements which can and do end anything with anyone. How you practice and prepare is up to you.
Stinker
[/quote]
1 H&K USP .45
12 Winchester SXT rounds
Learn how to shoot. You have just eliminated 99% of the self defense bullshit.
I actually get emails from trsdirect.com on fighting tips without being a subscriber, I think I was automatically added to their email list after buying a book called “Serious Growth III”, good fight tips for a beginner/novice, I come from a more traditional fighting background though.
Here’s how I got started choosing instruction…
I spent many years pre-teens inspired by many martial arts films (1985), when I learned my father was a brown belt when he was younger there was no question this is what I wanted to do with my life. Ok now on to choosing a good teacher/school.
2 schools in my town, one taught Tang Soo Do, Korean martial art, very energetic and strong hispanic teacher, lots of sparring, training equipment, concrete floor though, few competitions and were all open to all martial arts.
Other school was in a small studio few students and Tae Kwon Do teacher was older not very enregetic and was known to just hand out belts after enough time passed - no competitions, just kata and some light sparring on carpet. pff i dont think so.
Ok I didnt have a job so mom and dad were gonna have to pay for monthly dues somehow. Hrm, allowance was only 5 bucks a week, training dues for any dojo was about 40 bucks a month plus uniform and tournamnet fees… ok i gotta work for dad at the shop…FOR FREE…
Ok took a while to get them to buy this deal, mom was against because she thought it would lead to trouble violence etc, dad was against because he was a practical dad with 7 kids, who couldnt just shell out cash so I could learn to fight…but I had one thing going for me, dad needed cheap labor at the shop! HAHA you cant get any cheaper than hiring your 15 year old son for 40 bucks a month, no allowance…screaming deal.
ok nearest dojo was all the way across town and I had no car, I biked it after school kept my uniform well wrapped im my backpack, trained in the evening mondays, tuesdays, thursdays, saturdays.
Biked it home after training. Worked on my off days. The style by far was not as important as the training intensity, sparring availability, equipment availability, tournament events. I earned a great physique after 2 years and yes participiated in a couple of tournaments that built my confidence quite well. After 2 years and graduating high school, I had to move on to go to Tech college, time to find another school, i moved to West Covina area and many schools were just like the tae Kwon Do school handing out belts like candy. i just trained on my own for a while I didnt have hard cash to shell out for a half ass school. 3 years later I moved back home and immediately joined up with a Shotokan school just starting up at the recreation center I heard fees were reasonable and because the instructor was just starting he was offerring screaming deals to new students, free uniforms, first month free. He was good, I knew of him when I was younger but didnt choose his school because it was too far away. I spent 5 years with the school, and we had moved buildings as more students joined and the instructor collected more dues/fees. I was with him the longest of any student he had and so he rewarded me with the “honor” of teaching the beginner class age 6 - 10. Actually I volunteered, I had no job and wasnt able to pay the monthly dues. But he was wise and he had a plan, I spent 2 years as brown, avoiding Black Belt testing as long as I could because I heard Sinsei takahashi, which was my instructors sinsei, was very unreasonable on anyone who wasn’t asian, attempting a black belt test. When I heard my instructor had lettered his sinsei for invitation to test me, I nearly blacked out from headrush, I remember doing front snap kick drils, 100 reps each leg or til i dropped, then taking a breather and my instructor saying, “Your going to test Shodan this weekend”. My ears rang from the shock, I knew I was ready, but was feared from the rumors I heard of Takahashi’s kumite test -
Well, if youre still reading this you might be wondering if I made black, ahem, well turns out Takahashi had hip replacement surgery and he sent his 5th degree Blackbelt to test me, he was very reasonable and made sure to give me a humble whooping after my kata and attacks demonstrations, we entered into kumite and he slammed me with one hand on my chest from an arial postion on my first attack. He was generous the next 2 points and allowed me to execute various front snap side thrust and roundhouse kick combos to demonstrate my leg mobility i guess, once he was bored he ended the bout with basic reverse punches, very controlled and swift as i would have expected from a 5th degree.
I passed the test - whew, and thats how I got started.
I do remember originally wanting to learn to fight, however what I learned in the dojo and about myself was far more interesting than street fighting fantasies. Peace fellas.
[quote]Scrappy wrote:
I’ve seen almost all of their sets. Which ones did you think were best?
I thought most of them were not realistic. The supposed attacker is doing things a dummy wouldn’t do. A couple of the guys seemed to have some nice tricks, but mostly I thought their stuff was not very good.
I don’t have the tapes handy, so I cannot say whom I’ve got, but I can say that the techniques do work.
Every time.
Stinker
[/quote]
Go to a Systema seminar sometime. I thought it was BS too. Until I couldn’t even graze one of the students with a knife at full speed with random attacks at close range. Their traps, locks, throws and takeaways were outstanding. They hit like hammers, too.
It can look fake, but its the real deal.
[quote]Matgic wrote:
If you’d like to see some funny shit of what NOT to do. Check this out. Make sure to watch the video clips.
I am a third dan in Goju Ryu Karate, second dan in Tae Kwon Do, and I have taken some boxing, bjj, aikido, hapkido, and miscellaneous other things. You need to enter a school and practice, religously, to learn to defend yourself. That being said, my instructor, and life long friend, has a book out for sale on amazon. “Within Arms Reach” by 9th degree Garry N Klaus. These are the same techniques he taught to the US Army and Marine Corps in their martial arts programs.
This is not an excuse to skip out on training in an established, reputable school.
Were they able to give you the same power in a seminar…or even over the long haul? Do you continue to do it? Do you feel you can survive a real close range knife attack?
I saw the TRS version of the systema with vladimir vasilev and it did indeed look like bs. It certainly did not tell me how I could pull off the moves. Instead, it looked like his opponents were cooperating. I am truly interested in all this as I teach techniques to people here and there and although I question everything, if I have an open mind. So far though I’ve stuck to mostly bjj/boxing and discussed ‘dirty’ tactics mostly just so people are aware of what will happen.
Back to systema…I saw a clip of Mikhail Ryabko doing touchless knockouts/knock downs and stuff and I definitely don’t buy that.
[quote]Res Judicata wrote:
Go to a Systema seminar sometime. I thought it was BS too. Until I couldn’t even graze one of the students with a knife at full speed with random attacks at close range. Their traps, locks, throws and takeaways were outstanding. They hit like hammers, too.
It can look fake, but its the real deal.
Matgic wrote:
If you’d like to see some funny shit of what NOT to do. Check this out. Make sure to watch the video clips.
[/quote]
My friend does Systema and I tagged along to a seminar recently. I’ve done various martial arts over the years (currently BJJ).
Vladimir is the most impressive martial artist I’ve ever seen in person.
I didn’t see any of the no touch throw stuff there, nor did I experience it. Ryabko, the guy doing the no touch work in the videos, is supposedly much better than Vladimir. They have some mystical ideas, rooted in their strong Russian Orthodox faith. But they seem quite normal in comparison to, say, the Aikido founder.
I got some good information from the seminar and some good tricks. But mostly I learned ways of practicing. They aren’t big on set techniques – they learn to do things spontaneously.
Frankly, if you attack me with a knife at close range, I’m probably dead. I felt that I could learn to up those odds, though. The guys I worked with knew and did things I had never experienced before.
Go, see if it’s for you.
BJJ/boxing is an excellent combination, btw.
[quote]Scrappy wrote:
Were they able to give you the same power in a seminar…or even over the long haul? Do you continue to do it? Do you feel you can survive a real close range knife attack?
I saw the TRS version of the systema with vladimir vasilev and it did indeed look like bs. It certainly did not tell me how I could pull off the moves. Instead, it looked like his opponents were cooperating. I am truly interested in all this as I teach techniques to people here and there and although I question everything, if I have an open mind. So far though I’ve stuck to mostly bjj/boxing and discussed ‘dirty’ tactics mostly just so people are aware of what will happen.
Back to systema…I saw a clip of Mikhail Ryabko doing touchless knockouts/knock downs and stuff and I definitely don’t buy that.
Res Judicata wrote:
Go to a Systema seminar sometime. I thought it was BS too. Until I couldn’t even graze one of the students with a knife at full speed with random attacks at close range. Their traps, locks, throws and takeaways were outstanding. They hit like hammers, too.
It can look fake, but its the real deal.
Matgic wrote:
If you’d like to see some funny shit of what NOT to do. Check this out. Make sure to watch the video clips.
[/quote]
[quote]Res Judicata wrote:
Vladimir is the most impressive martial artist I’ve ever seen in person.
But they seem quite normal in comparison to, say, the Aikido founder.
Frankly, if you attack me with a knife at close range, I’m probably dead. I felt that I could learn to up those odds, though. The guys I worked with knew and did things I had never experienced before.
Res Judicata wrote:
Go to a Systema seminar sometime. I thought it was BS too. Until I couldn’t even graze one of the students with a knife at full speed with random attacks at close range. Their traps, locks, throws and takeaways were outstanding. They hit like hammers, too.
It can look fake, but its the real deal.
[/quote]
Firstly, I think that saying that their stuff is not that unbelievable compared to Aikido stuff is kind of proving my point. I wouldn’t call Aikido an effective form of combat either.
And before we get into a style argument, yes ANYTHING CAN work. But some things work better more of the time. A musket can be effective in a fight but not nearly as effective as an M16, so why choose the former.
And the chances of surviving a knife attack without being at all wounded are not too great depending on your skill set, desire to survive and how much they want to stick you. But the shit I’ve seen them do is ridiculous. Number one priority in a knife fight is to GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE unless you are a police officer, security, or in some other position where you have to directly deal with the situation.
And if you can’t even graze someone with a knife and your trying your damned hardest, there must be something seriously wrong with you. The power of suggestion is incredibly real. I once went to a Lin Kong Jing seminar when I was 14 and was convinced that the guy knocked me down without touching me. Bullshit.
If I took one of your loved ones and held a gun to their head and said stab this man or they will die, you would AT LEAST graze him.
And their traps and locks are not outstanding. They work on willing opponents. Most things do if you look into many martial arts and “self defense” systems.
-MAtt
I meant that being a mystic is not inconsistent with being a badass. Rickson Gracie is heavily into yoga and is an all-around new age mystical nutball. But he’s still a badass. Whatever the state of modern aikido (i.e. poor), Ueshiba was generally considered a badass, although perhaps not so much as his teacher.
Go to a seminar sometime, that’s all I’m saying. As I said, I thought it was BS too. It looks bizarre, especially to someone like me with basically a Japanese MA background. Some of the things look like they could not possibly work, but yet . . .
The person I worked with on this particular exercise had been practicing for many years – he may have been an instructor, I’m not sure. This exercise dealt with the situation where someone attacks you at close range, probably by surprize. Avoidance was not an option.
I could tag less advanced people and was not totally outclassed. I don’t think I was psychologically avoiding hitting this person. I’m just saying I couldn’t touch this particular person.
They don’t expect not to get struck. One of the more interesting things they praticed was how to move if you were struck with a knife.
Maybe I’m suggestable and full of it. Who knows. I’ve done quite a few things over the years and worked with quite a few people. I’m quite a bit older than 14. I can usually tell the difference between bs and the real deal.
I agree that most aikido sucks, most aikido tanto-dori techniques suck, and a lot of (most?)people fake it. But I’ve also known a few who could do aikido/aikijujutsu for real, so who knows. Maybe its the person and not the art.
[quote]Matgic wrote:
[deleted quoted text]
Firstly, I think that saying that their stuff is not that unbelievable compared to Aikido stuff is kind of proving my point. I wouldn’t call Aikido an effective form of combat either.
And before we get into a style argument, yes ANYTHING CAN work. But some things work better more of the time. A musket can be effective in a fight but not nearly as effective as an M16, so why choose the former.
And the chances of surviving a knife attack without being at all wounded are not too great depending on your skill set, desire to survive and how much they want to stick you. But the shit I’ve seen them do is ridiculous. Number one priority in a knife fight is to GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE unless you are a police officer, security, or in some other position where you have to directly deal with the situation.
And if you can’t even graze someone with a knife and your trying your damned hardest, there must be something seriously wrong with you. The power of suggestion is incredibly real. I once went to a Lin Kong Jing seminar when I was 14 and was convinced that the guy knocked me down without touching me. Bullshit.
If I took one of your loved ones and held a gun to their head and said stab this man or they will die, you would AT LEAST graze him.
And their traps and locks are not outstanding. They work on willing opponents. Most things do if you look into many martial arts and “self defense” systems.
-MAtt[/quote]
[quote]The Mage wrote:
First start out with the Karate kid. Watch it repeatedly and learn from it. Practice extensively on “wax the floor” and “spank the monkey”.
Next rent the street fighter movie. Mimic everything you see.
When you are ready, rent Mortal Kombat. This is where you learn a lot of advanced moves.
Make sure you have mastered all these skills before moving to probably the most advanced form of martial arts there is. Anime martial arts.
Dragon Ball Z, Escaflowne, Gundam, Chobits, Pokemon, Love Hina.
If you see it on TV, you can do it.
[/quote]
Master Mage Miyagi,
At what point will I ascend to Chuck Norris Mastery.
Under your Tutelage,
Young Edgehopper
In all seriousness, thanks to all for posting. Basically I was just looking for, and found, some recommendations and info as to where and how to get started. When I get a chance to do some reading/researching I may be shooting some of you a PM. Again, thanks.
[quote]Matgic wrote:
If you’d like to see some funny shit of what NOT to do. Check this out. Make sure to watch the video clips.
http://www.russianmartialart.com/[/quote]
Holy shit! The great thing is, you can get great action shots like this on a t-shirt!
Why is self defense suddenly such an interesting topic. fighting is one thing, but if a person is in a self-defense situation, then plan on hospitalizing your opponent. If they draw first blood, fight dirty, fight hard. Dont be afriad to gouge an eye out, and don’t be afraid to strangle them. You have got the right to defend yourself.
Do not use more force then they exert on you. What that means is that if they do not use a weapon, then you can’t but you can still hit em as hard as you like with your hands. If they pull a knife, then you can break a bottle and use it. If they pull out a club, then you can use a crowbar. If they pull a gun, your probably dead, but then you can too.
If you are defending yourself, then do not hold back.
However, if you are an assclown and squirt someone with a water gun, and they beat the hell out of you, and then you paralyze them later on, then every court in the world would side with him.
You are absolutely right, BarneyFife. Every fight is potentially a life or death situation. Your attacker could have a weapon or three friends or just decide to stomp on your head after you’re down.
Check your state law. Some state’s use the “force continuum” that you described but, honestly, any half decent defense lawyer could still get you off if a guy twice your size attacked in an alley and you stabbed him in the neck with your pocket knife. An old JKD proverb is “It’s better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.”