T Nation

Seeking Criticism...


From reading the stickies, looking at samples, and considering my goals I have put together a loose idea of the type of cycle I think would meet my objectives. I am currently:

Army Vet
Wide Framed
On the Anabolic Diet
Lifting on/off Since High School

My main exercises are squats, bench, rows, deadlifts and push presses. I'll throw in the occasional Barbell Curl or isolation exercise if I'm feeling froggy, but training 3x a week I've found I can't recover fast enough to do my main set if I go through the gym like a silverback tossing plates everywhere.

My goal is to gain more mass and keep sides to a minimum where possible. I have no intention of ever competing, I don't want to deadlift tractor tires or fuse my vertebrate - I simply want to be like my dog. It's big, it looks formidable, but honestly it just spends most of it's time laying around and discouraging conflict via appearances alone.

I do BJJ for flexibility (and because it's fun) but I have no illusions about hulk stomping the world, I actually prefer to sit and watch it roll by - but it's not written anywhere that you can't look good while doing it. Some dietary flexibility due to a higher base metabolism would also come in handy.

My main focus is on PCT, because I want to keep what I gain. I am also injury averse, and have no desire to pop a tendon or worse. That is why I have decided against Tren Ace or Halotestin for this run. I would also like to limit cycles to every two-three years or so, focusing on quality, planning, and steady gains (or even maintaining decent stats).

Money is not my primary concern here, doing it "right" or as close to "right" as I can get is given our current understanding of the best anabolic practices. I'm also in no particular hurry to cycle on, so if that means ordering something I omitted - thats just fine.

Some things I am mulling over:

Taper PCT - People are saying good things, I have more reading to do - thoughts are welcome.
Frontloading TestP - Can this effectively combat the the mood sides of Drol?
Frontloading TestP - Is this safe to use before the TestE "kicks in"?
DBol - I have some already, is there a good place to insert this or is there a conflict?

Here is what I have so far:


I have my asbestos suit ready. Flame on...


you have all these great aas and laid out pretty well, then you have Drol…why?


ATM25 Our stats are very similar. I was a bit older than you when I ran this cycle (my first) a couple years back.

TEST P 75 mg/ED 8 weeks
MAST P 50 mg/ED 8 weeks
HCG 250 IU E3D weeks 3-8

I used hardly any adex, really did not need it and my PCT was a TEST P/MAST P taper, discussed in the stickies that worked just fine.

Did not bother with a TEST P frontload.

I gained 11 ibs and kept 8-9 of it. along with retaining about 80 percent of my strength gains.

I use the same core lifts as you and I also do BJJ and this cycle could not have worked better for me.

Best of luck!


[quote]bchrisen wrote:
you have all these great aas and laid out pretty well, then you have Drol…why?[/quote]

I was aiming for maximum growth and hoping to keep a decent amount of it, a kickstart of sorts.

I’m not married to Drol, would DBol be a more pleasant alternative with a better risk/reward ratio?


Nice gains Sealclubber. I’m likely being over cautious with my little project here, but my ability to recover my axis and libido rank pretty high in my book, these are powerful substances we are mucking around with after all. They say nine women can’t make a baby in a month, and I don’t want a seat on the regret train because I failed to give planning it’s due diligence.

That said, I think if you are going to do a thing, you should commit to it and hope your preparation bears fruit. I will likely have several products left untouched when I am done because I didint need them, but I want them on hand in case something goes haywire, PCT stuff that is.

I’m currently using 5000mg of DBol in a bottle as a paperweight, and there it will stay until I’m convinced it’s going to be properly utilized.

Gonna hit the sack, thanks for the replies!


How many cycles have you run before man? You’ve got some really high dosages listed on that spreadsheet. You have 1.5!!! grams of testosterone for the first 2 weeks, along with Deca and 150!!! mg of Anadrol. The side effects, which you said you want to avoid, would be brutal.

There are a lot of things I would reconsider if I were you, but some “mistakes” with your cycle is HCG should be used throughout (250iu 2x/week) rather than just at the end and you would start Nolvadex in week 15 (2 weeks after your last injection). Before that you still have exogenous test in your system.

To answer your questions:
-No experience with taper, sorry
-The “mood effects” are from anadrol shutting down your endogenous test, since you are also taking test you should not have any problems
-Safe yes, but not necessary since you are already kickstarting with the drol
-I think Dbol in this cycle would be overkilling overkill

I’ll read again after I’ve slept lol, but overall I think you are taking too many drugs for your goals


This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


I was thinking the same thing with regard to dosages, I plan to math them out better soon. I only added the test to combat the Anadrol and frontload the TestE, my hasty spitballing seems overzealous I agree.

I am looking at swapping the Drol for DBol, I will try to find some arguments for each option and parse the pros and cons from there.


I think dbol at the beginning of your cycle for the first 4 to 6 weeks would be awesome for you. You could ditch the prop so you dont have to pin ED, front load the test Enth and deca ( even tho I hate deca…too suppressive for me personally) and you could run some var towards the end of cycle to give you a hardened look.

I would also run some hcg at 250 iu 2x a week starting week 3 and stopping with last pin of test. Then running nolvadex at 40/40/20/20/10 while continuing adex through post cycle tapering off to prevent E rebound. my 2 cents…good luck and happy growing!



I’ve made some changes to reflect suggestions with regard to dosages and compounds.

Some thoughts:

DBol - 30 seems to be a happy balance.
TrenE - Less pinning and sides.

With regard to the DBol, is there anything resembling a consensus on dosing? All at once, or spread out?


[quote]ATM25 wrote:
I’ve made some changes to reflect suggestions with regard to dosages and compounds.

Some thoughts:

DBol - 30 seems to be a happy balance.
TrenE - Less pinning and sides.

With regard to the DBol, is there anything resembling a consensus on dosing? All at once, or spread out?[/quote]

No…its about 50/50. I prefer to spread them out, but if I’m taking say 50mg, I’d take 10 when I wake up, 10 more in the afternoon, 30 preworkout. I dont take them before bed because it gives me bad heartburn lol.


yeah i take 10mg in the morning , 10 at lunch and 20mg before training.