T Nation

Second Vermont Republic

I highly doubt anything will come of this, but interesting to see a decentralist movement in one of the most left-wing states in the Union:

"The State of Vermont is about as swept up in Obamamania as a state can get. While Hillary Clinton won three of four primaries on March 4th, Obama carried Vermont by a twenty point margin. The spirit of O is so intense that Vermont’s Progressives �?? a social-democratic third party with enough seats in the legislature to put a thorn in the sides of state Democrats �?? have openly endorsed Obama; it is, there seems, no competition.

But against this vast consensus of centralizers and statists runs an unconventional countercurrent: secession.

At Riverwalk Records in Montpelier, there’s a rack of t-shirts that demand “U.S. Out of VT!”, and a secessionist convention held in the statehouse in 2005 drew a crowd of more than three hundred. The separatist cause boasts its own think tank (named optimistically the Second Vermont Republic), its own journal (The Vermont Commons), and, most recently, a candidate for Governor: one independence activist has taken the paradoxical plunge.

According to a poll conducted by the University of Vermont in 2007, 13 percent of Vermonters support secession from the United States, up from 8 percent in 2006. But secessionism is no passing fad. It’s just raising its profile, fitting neatly into Vermont’s long tradition of contrarianism and independence. Vermont, in its 1777 Constitution, was the first state to ban slavery, and it was at the forefront of the abolitionist movement. As Federal fugitive slave laws tightened in the 1840s and '50s, Vermont’s legislature passed a series of acts nullifying them. As a result, fugitive slaves worked openly on farms throughout the state, and not a single fugitive in the state was retaken in the decade after the Compromise of 1850. When the Republican Party was formed in 1854, Vermont immediately elected a Republican Governor, and the GOP held onto that office continuously until 1963. When the rest of the country eagerly embraced Roosevelt’s New Deal, Vermont voted down a proposed Green Mountain Parkway, refused to participate in Federal rural resettlement, and was one of only two states to vote for Alf Landon over Roosevelt in 1936.

Since the 1960s, the politics in Vermont have swung left, but have not become any more conventional. Vermont’s last Republican senator, Jim Jeffords, left the party to become an independent in 2001; upon Jeffords’ retirement, the self-identified socialist Congressman Bernie Sanders ran for, and won, his seat by a substantial margin in 2006. Vermont was the first state to pass a civil union law for gay couples. Several town meetings have passed resolutions commissioning their police departments to arrest President Bush and Vice President Cheney should either enter their jurisdiction.

The idea of secession was first floated in modern times by University of Vermont Professor Frank Bryan and former state legislator Bill Mares in Out! The Vermont Secession Book (1987), a tongue-in-cheek fantasy about the historic discovery of an imaginary treaty, signed by George Washington and Ethan Allen, that enshrined Vermont’s right to leave the Union. Four years later, Bryan and Vermont Supreme Court Justice John Dooley held a series of debates in honor of the bicentennial of Vermont’s adoption of the U.S. Constitution. At the close of the debates, all seven audiences voted on the matter, and all seven went for secession. And in 2003, retired Duke economics professor Thomas Naylor published The Vermont Manifesto, subsequently founding the Second Vermont Republic."

It would have been great if we had a president names Alf.

That’s a cool piece.

I do love Vermont. That whole “fuck you” attitude is a wonderful thing.

I saw Sanders on Bill Maher the other day. I liked him. Good for them. I wish NJ was the same way.

I would gladly participate in the invasion and occupation of Vermont in an effort to preserve the Union. The Vermont insurgency is going to look like a bunch of pussies compared to Iraq and Afghanistan.

[quote]BH6 wrote:
I would gladly participate in the invasion and occupation of Vermont in an effort to preserve the Union. The Vermont insurgency is going to look like a bunch of pussies compared to Iraq and Afghanistan. [/quote]

Those smelly hippies wouldn’t stand a chance.

Just think of the raiding parties from the surrounding states.

Vermont is all about secession. In 2004 the town of Killington, VT voted to secede from Vermont and join New Hampshire. One problem, Killington is not on the VT/NH border.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113108,00.html

NH established a commission to assist, but because the State of VT did not establish a parallel commission, the process stalled.

[quote]BH6 wrote:
I would gladly participate in the invasion and occupation of Vermont in an effort to preserve the Union. The Vermont insurgency is going to look like a bunch of pussies compared to Iraq and Afghanistan. [/quote]

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.-

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

[quote]orion wrote:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.-

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. [/quote]

Vorsicht, mein freund. You can get in trouble spreading around such seditious talk these days.

[quote]BH6 wrote:
I would gladly participate in the invasion and occupation of Vermont in an effort to preserve the Union. The Vermont insurgency is going to look like a bunch of pussies compared to Iraq and Afghanistan. [/quote]

Zeb Vance is turning over in his grave.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
That’s a cool piece.

I do love Vermont. That whole “fuck you” attitude is a wonderful thing.

I saw Sanders on Bill Maher the other day. I liked him. Good for them. I wish NJ was the same way.[/quote]

I can think of no two states more unalike than Vermont and New Jersey, with the possible exception of Oregon and Massachusetts.

Vermont shares with Alaska the least restrictive gun laws in the entire nation. So long as you meet the usual federal requirements (no felony convictions, no history of mental illness, etc.,) for purchase of a handgun, one may carry it, open or concealed, without a permit.

Don’t try that in Jersey.

Or in North Carolina, for that matter. :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
That’s a cool piece.

I do love Vermont. That whole “fuck you” attitude is a wonderful thing.

I saw Sanders on Bill Maher the other day. I liked him. Good for them. I wish NJ was the same way.

I can think of no two states more unalike than Vermont and New Jersey, with the possible exception of Oregon and Massachusetts.

Vermont shares with Alaska the least restrictive gun laws in the entire nation. So long as you meet the usual federal requirements (no felony convictions, no history of mental illness, etc.,) for purchase of a handgun, one may carry it, open or concealed, without a permit.

Don’t try that in Jersey.

Or in North Carolina, for that matter. :P[/quote]

Just noticed that’s an M-14 photoshopped into your avatar. Good stuff.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
orion wrote:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.-

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Vorsicht, mein freund. You can get in trouble spreading around such seditious talk these days.
[/quote]

Heim ins Kanada? :wink:

[quote]TQB wrote:

Heim ins Kanada? ;-)[/quote]

Maybe so. Before they wise up and build a border fence.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Just noticed that’s an M-14 photoshopped into your avatar. Good stuff.[/quote]

Thanks.

That’s what I call a well-regulated Militiaman.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
BH6 wrote:
I would gladly participate in the invasion and occupation of Vermont in an effort to preserve the Union. The Vermont insurgency is going to look like a bunch of pussies compared to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Zeb Vance is turning over in his grave.[/quote]

Oh I’m not from North Carolina, I’m just stationed there. The last states that tried to leave the United States weren’t successful. The seccessionists in Vermont can leave and form thier perfect little country somewhere else. It would be interesting to send regiments from the North Carolina national guard up to Vermont though.
I think Zeb’s quote on the civil war may be applicable to the situation in Vermont.
“The great popular heart is not now and never has been in this war. It was a revolution of the politicians, not the people.”

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Vermont shares with Alaska the least restrictive gun laws in the entire nation. So long as you meet the usual federal requirements (no felony convictions, no history of mental illness, etc.,) for purchase of a handgun, one may carry it, open or concealed, without a permit.
[/quote]

New Hampshire ain’t far behind.

I think I could learn to love NH. It’s kinda like Texas only with snow and fall foliage.

VT is full of white guys with dreadlocks… Retards

NH isn’t bad, kinda boring, but there are some towns that look like those Rob Zombie movies. Although I’ve never been to Texas, but gotta give it to a state that takes that much pride in Football.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
That’s a cool piece.

I do love Vermont. That whole “fuck you” attitude is a wonderful thing.

I saw Sanders on Bill Maher the other day. I liked him. Good for them. I wish NJ was the same way.

I can think of no two states more unalike than Vermont and New Jersey, with the possible exception of Oregon and Massachusetts.

Vermont shares with Alaska the least restrictive gun laws in the entire nation. So long as you meet the usual federal requirements (no felony convictions, no history of mental illness, etc.,) for purchase of a handgun, one may carry it, open or concealed, without a permit.

Don’t try that in Jersey.

Or in North Carolina, for that matter. :P[/quote]

Same thing I always say about gun laws- different environments. It wouldn’t work here, but in a culture that grew up with that type of thing, it’s fine.

I’m very pro-gun. To be put plainly, I think they’re fucking cool. On a less basic level, I think every man should have the right to defend his home and family with a gun.

Assault weapons are the same way. I think they’re fucking cool, and being as the bad guys have them, there’s no reason that law abiding citizens shouldn’t be allowed to have them. So I guess I’m in favor of them too.

It’s the one thing I’m not so liberal on. I think every home should have a gun. As they say, it’s the ultimate check and balance.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
That’s a cool piece.

I do love Vermont. That whole “fuck you” attitude is a wonderful thing.

I saw Sanders on Bill Maher the other day. I liked him. Good for them. I wish NJ was the same way.

I can think of no two states more unalike than Vermont and New Jersey, with the possible exception of Oregon and Massachusetts.

Vermont shares with Alaska the least restrictive gun laws in the entire nation. So long as you meet the usual federal requirements (no felony convictions, no history of mental illness, etc.,) for purchase of a handgun, one may carry it, open or concealed, without a permit.

Don’t try that in Jersey.

Or in North Carolina, for that matter. :P[/quote]

I can think of quite a few states other than Oregon that are way more unalike from Mass.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
That’s a cool piece.

I do love Vermont. That whole “fuck you” attitude is a wonderful thing.

I saw Sanders on Bill Maher the other day. I liked him. Good for them. I wish NJ was the same way.

I can think of no two states more unalike than Vermont and New Jersey, with the possible exception of Oregon and Massachusetts.

Vermont shares with Alaska the least restrictive gun laws in the entire nation. So long as you meet the usual federal requirements (no felony convictions, no history of mental illness, etc.,) for purchase of a handgun, one may carry it, open or concealed, without a permit.

Don’t try that in Jersey.

Or in North Carolina, for that matter. :stuck_out_tongue:

Just noticed that’s an M-14 photoshopped into your avatar. Good stuff.[/quote]

I never noticed that. Fine rifle.