T Nation

Second Round of 5/3/1 and I am Regressing

I just started 5/3/1 about nine week ago (doing it 3 days a week) after coming off of the texas method.Going into the program my estimated 1RM maxes for Bench, Squat, Shoulder Press, and Deadlift were 226, 340, 154, 360. I am now in my 5/3/1 week for the second cycle and on the last sets I so far was only able to bench 205 for 2 reps and squat 300 for 3 reps. I came into both sets feeling great, but when I actually started lifting I felt incredibly weak. I can’t seem to pinpoint my errors, so I wanted to see if you guys could help me.

Thanks ahead of time.

Here’s my log:

Week 1: 3x5+ Week 2: 3x3+ Week 3: 1x5, 1x3, 1x1+ Week 4: 3x5 (Deload) Week 1 PR 1RM Week 2 PR 1RM Week 3 PR 1RM
CYCLE 1 29 Feb to 21 Mar 2012
Core Lift 1RM 90% Wendler Percentages
Bench Press 226 203 Week 1 Week 2 Week 3 Week 4
Squat 340 306 65% 70% 75% 40%
Shoulder Press 154 139 75% 80% 85% 50%
Deadlift 360 324 85% 90% 95% 60%
Core Lift
Bench Press Wed, 29 Feb Wed, 07 Mar Wed, 14 Mar Wed, 21 Mar
Set 1 130.00 140.00 155.00 80.00
Set 2 155.00 165.00 175.00 100.00
Set 3 175.00 185.00 195.00 120.00 2.07% -1.40%
PR: Set 9 8 6 N/A 225.05 229.70 226.48
Squat Fri, 02 Mar Fri, 09 Mar Fri, 16 Mar Fri, 23 Mar
Set 1 200.00 215.00 230.00 120.00
Set 2 230.00 245.00 260.00 155.00
Set 3 260.00 275.00 290.00 185.00 -1.79% -1.58%
PR: Set 11 9 7 N/A 360.11 353.65 348.06
Shoulder Press Sun, 04 Mar Sun, 11 Mar Sun, 18 Mar Sun, 25 Mar
Set 1 90.00 95.00 105.00 55.00
Set 2 105.00 110.00 120.00 70.00
Set 3 120.00 125.00 130.00 85.00 4.17% -2.94%
PR: Set 9 9 7 N/A 154.32 160.75 156.02
Deadlift Wed, 29 Feb Wed, 07 Mar Wed, 14 Mar Wed, 21 Mar
Set 1 210.00 225.00 245.00 130.00
Set 2 245.00 260.00 275.00 160.00
Set 3 275.00 290.00 310.00 195.00 2.05% 0.41%
PR: Set 7 6 4 N/A 330.05 336.82 338.21
CYCLE 2 28 Mar to 18 Apr 2012
Core Lift 1RM 90% Wendler Percentages
Bench Press 237 213 Week 1 Week 2 Week 3 Week 4
Squat 351 316 65% 70% 75% 40%
Shoulder Press 165 149 75% 80% 85% 50%
Deadlift 371 334 85% 90% 95% 60%
Core Lift
Bench Press Wed, 28 Mar Wed, 04 Apr Wed, 11 Apr Wed, 18 Apr
Set 1 140.00 150.00 160.00 85.00
Set 2 160.00 170.00 180.00 105.00
Set 3 180.00 190.00 205.00 130.00 2.15% -4.45%
PR: Set 7 6 2 NA 216.03 220.67 210.86
Squat Fri, 30 Mar Fri, 06 Apr Fri, 13 Apr Fri, 20 Apr
Set 1 205.00 220.00 235.00 125.00
Set 2 235.00 255.00 270.00 160.00
Set 3 270.00 285.00 300.00 190.00 -8.08% -4.03%
PR: Set 10 6 3 NA 360.10 331.01 317.66
Shoulder Press Sun, 01 Apr Sun, 08 Apr Sun, 15 Apr Sun, 22 Apr
Set 1 95.00 105.00 110.00 60.00
Set 2 110.00 120.00 125.00 75.00
Set 3 125.00 135.00 140.00 90.00 4.40% 0.00%
PR: Set 8 7 NA 155.20 162.03 #N/A
Deadlift Wed, 28 Mar Wed, 04 Apr Wed, 11 Apr Wed, 18 Apr
Set 1 215.00 235.00 250.00 135.00
Set 2 250.00 265.00 285.00 165.00
Set 3 285.00 300.00 315.00 200.00 -6.78% 0.00%
PR: Set 6 2 NA 331.01 308.58 #N/A

Sorry dude, you may have to format it a bit better - I personally find that impossible to read.

If you appear to be getting weaker, could be too much extra work outside your core lifts?
Diet?
Lack of sleep?

You may just be having a shitty week. Have you seen an overall trend upwards in your calculated max based on your weight/reps for each exercise each week?

panzer also has a good point–sleep, nutrition, etc. all play into it.

I have lost 6lbs since I started, but my diet has stayed the same. I get 7-8 hours of sleep every day. I run twice a week (one long distance of about 4.5 miles, one short distance of about six sprints) outside of the three days that I do 5/3/1. I am doing triumvirate for my assistance work.

Sorry about the log I tried copying and pasting it from excel. It’ll probably be easiest if I just upload the xlsx:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ybg9py

^All of the above, but also your numbers are off for bench at least. Shitty formatting so I didn’t check the rest.

226 1RM = Training max of 203 for 1st cycle which you have.

You then add 10lbs instead of the recommended 5lbs for cycle 2 so are doing 205lbs on 5/3/1 week instead of 197.5

This might also be a part of it.

If 5/3/1 isn’t floating your boat. Go back to Texas method and keep winning there?

Why stop something that is working.

I’m regressing on practically all of my lifts. The texas method stopped working, I kept having to deload because of missed lifts and my lifts were going nowhere. The running should not have any disastrous effect. I am not running that hard and Wendler recommends some running/conditioning.

Your body needs to get used to the running. Your lifts will regress until it’s used to it. Especially 4.5 mile runs.

Obviously you overestimated your 1RM.
Don’t go by what the calculator says.
If you can hit a higher weight for your target reps, do that.
If you have to scale it back b/c life got in the way, do that.

I’ve been doing them for the past 2 years.

[quote]roon12 wrote:
^All of the above, but also your numbers are off for bench at least. Shitty formatting so I didn’t check the rest.

226 1RM = Training max of 203 for 1st cycle which you have.

You then add 10lbs instead of the recommended 5lbs for cycle 2 so are doing 205lbs on 5/3/1 week instead of 197.5

This might also be a part of it.[/quote]

This might be true, but its likely just a rounding error IMO.

OP, if I were you, I would just knock another 10% off all my training maxes and start there. Give it 3 cycles that way and then if you are still lagging, move onto something else. I suppose its not for everybody, but its so well programmed I have a hard time believing it wouldn’t. Be sure to eat and recover.

How long have you been doing the conditioning (i.e. are you used to it yet)?

90% of your 1rm on bench is 203.4 this should be your training max for the program, yet you are doing 205. You are not following 5/3/1.

[quote]tajacks2 wrote:
90% of your 1rm on bench is 203.4 this should be your training max for the program, yet you are doing 205. You are not following 5/3/1.[/quote]

facepalm

First Cycle Training Max = 226 * .9 = 203.4, round to 205

Second Cylce training max = 205 + 5 = 210

Second Cycle, Week 3 = 210 * .95 = 199.5 ~ 200

This is not far off and not enough to make this much of a difference. Your post, while well meaning, is pretty useless.

[quote]tajacks2 wrote:
90% of your 1rm on bench is 203.4 this should be your training max for the program, yet you are doing 205. You are not following 5/3/1.[/quote]

wow…seemingly your understanding of 1), math and 2) 5/3/1 is quite possibly the lowest yet

Tru dat guys, no need to be precise. He is obviously using too much weight for the rep ranges. So why round up 5 ponds if he is struggling? 8======D~~~~~~~ O:

[quote]tajacks2 wrote:
Tru dat guys, no need to be precise. He is obviously using too much weight for the rep ranges. So why round up 5 ponds if he is struggling? 8======D~~~~~~~ O:[/quote]

Maybe there’s no 2.5 pound plates in the gym. You can’t see the forest for the trees.

I still think if OP could post their log more clearly, it would help us evaluate it…

True, all I was trying to say the whole time was that he shouldn’t push the weight higher if he is having trouble getting the number of reps he wants. Round down instead of up, or lower max. Whatever is needed.

I uploaded my excel log to send space in an above post.

Cheers dude, I missed that post