T Nation

Second Opinion on Cycle


#1

Hi guys!
I have tried to read as much as possible to learn how to combine a cycle with good results with minimum side effects. I a need a second opinion on this program.

I appreciate all info.

Cycle
Weeks 1-4: Dianabol @ 20/20/30/30mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Test E @ 500mgs/w E3D
Weeks 1-10: Tren E @ 400mgs/w E3D
Weeks 6-10: Anavar @ 40mgs ED

PCT
Weeks 1-2: HCGemerate @ 5caps ED
Weeks 1-6: GW-501516 @ 20mgs ED (10 AM / 10 PM)
Weeks 3-6: Clomid @ 50/50/25/25mgs
Weeks 3-6: Nolva @ 40/20/20/20mgs
Weeks 3-6: Aromasin @*12,5mgs EOD
Weeks 3-6: N2Guard (2caps AM / 2caps Post Workout / 3capsPM)
Weeks 3-6: MK-2866 @*25mgs ED

Stats
Age: 30
Height: 187cm (73.6 inch)
Weight: 80kg (176 lbs)
Body fat: 13%
Cycle history: First at 25 years and the second at 27. Did testo (Galenika) for 10w both times.
Training history: On and off for 10 years


#2

Var dose is pretty low Since its a pretty mild steroid. I think youd be happier with some tbol or something and save money but just my opinion. Also, 5 weeks with var is too short imo.

Your pct needs work. You can throw away all that otc crap if you want because its not going to make much of a differance if any.

Check out the pct sticky at the top of this forum.


#3

What about upping that Dbol dose to something like 30/40/40/40.

Also like ELS said var dosed way too low… Think you would be happier dosing it at 75-100mg ed.

PCT needs a lot of work. Way too much stuff. Stick to Nolve/Clomid or Nolva or Clomid and read up stickies for proper PCT.


#4

No mention of an ai or dopamine agonist on cycle I hope you just forgot to mention it. I do see you have aromasin in your pct but it should be dosed at least twice daily. You can’t take it like a arimadex or Letro their half lifes are very different.

Run the dbol at 30mgs for the four weeks if you haven’t cycled for a while no need to go higher.

If you must use another oral at the end yea anavar dose is to low. I don’t even know how people justify running anavar for the price of it. Tbol is a lot cheaper and winny is way cheaper and they’re both more effective. Considering that fact that you anavar will probably be winny just buy it instead.

And probably the most important piece of advice here. Man your 6’2 at 176lbs. Your one of smallest people on any gym you go to. Not trying to be a dick but you could make a lot of progress staying natural and just training and eating properly. But if you must run something 500mgs of test a week would be more then enough to see good results. I know you said you wanted the most effective cycle but it’s a little overkill at you development.


#5

Yeah you need a permanent cycle of eat and train not exogenous hormones


#6

looks like a confused cycle, couple thing i can point out are. Dbol and anavar in a same short cycle is wrong. ur pct is a over kill. Tren E is not for someone with ur stats (no offense).
i also agree with @eatliftsleep comments


#7

I’m genuinely curious how you put together this abomination of a pct together in the first place. You’ve got so much going on here, and yet on the important things you somehow don’t have enough.


#8

Thank you for all the advice, I really appreciate it. It’s a jungle out there and I trying to find some useful information. It’s really hard when different forums write different answers.

Based on your information and the sticky threads, I’ve modified my cycle. I already have Anavar at home so I can just as well use it.

Cycle
Weeks 1-4: Dianabol @ 30mgs ED
Weeks 1-12: Test E @ 400mgs/w E3D
Weeks 6-12: Anavar @ 40mgs ED

PCT
Weeks 1-8: Aromasin @ 2x12,5mgs EOD
Weeks 2-7: Nolva @ 40/20/20/20mgs


#9

If you read the stickies you would actually have PCT… Yo do know what PCT means right… POST cycle therapy… How do you have POST cycle therapy if you are running “PCT” during cycle lol.
Proper PCT would be something like:

On Wk 14 or 15 starting Nolva for 4 to 6 weeks at 40 40 20 20 etc. dosage.
AI is not part of your PCT and should be run throughout cylce up to PCT… So your aromasin would be run from Wk 1-14 (yes even after you finish your test injection, since test will still be in your system and could aromatize). Anavar dosage seems low, think about upping it.


#10

Lmao come on op. If youre that damn lazy you dont deserve any help.


#11

[quote]The Void wrote:
No mention of an ai or dopamine agonist on cycle I hope you just forgot to mention it. I do see you have aromasin in your pct but it should be dosed at least twice daily. You can’t take it like a arimadex or Letro their half lifes are very different.

Run the dbol at 30mgs for the four weeks if you haven’t cycled for a while no need to go higher.

If you must use another oral at the end yea anavar dose is to low. I don’t even know how people justify running anavar for the price of it. Tbol is a lot cheaper and winny is way cheaper and they’re both more effective. Considering that fact that you anavar will probably be winny just buy it instead.

And probably the most important piece of advice here. Man your 6’2 at 176lbs. Your one of smallest people on any gym you go to. Not trying to be a dick but you could make a lot of progress staying natural and just training and eating properly. But if you must run something 500mgs of test a week would be more then enough to see good results. I know you said you wanted the most effective cycle but it’s a little overkill at you development.[/quote]

i disagree about the Aromasin bit…

yeah, the half-life is 8.9 hours, but that doesn’t mean it’s completely out of the body then… more importantly, it’s method of action is so much more different. since it permanently binds to the aromatase enzyme, that means the body needs to produce more of the enzyme before it can even try to convert estrogen.

the maximal suppression in males in shown to be 12 hours (and not 8.9 hours), which helps illustrate this point, i think…


#12

[quote]marlonb wrote:
Hi guys!
I have tried to read as much as possible to learn how to combine a cycle with good results with minimum side effects. I a need a second opinion on this program.

I appreciate all info.

Cycle
Weeks 1-4: Dianabol @ 20/20/30/30mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Test E @ 500mgs/w E3D
Weeks 1-10: Tren E @ 400mgs/w E3D
Weeks 6-10: Anavar @ 40mgs ED

PCT
Weeks 1-2: HCGemerate @ 5caps ED
Weeks 1-6: GW-501516 @ 20mgs ED (10 AM / 10 PM)
Weeks 3-6: Clomid @ 50/50/25/25mgs
Weeks 3-6: Nolva @ 40/20/20/20mgs
Weeks 3-6: Aromasin @*12,5mgs EOD
Weeks 3-6: N2Guard (2caps AM / 2caps Post Workout / 3capsPM)
Weeks 3-6: MK-2866 @*25mgs ED

Stats
Age: 30
Height: 187cm (73.6 inch)
Weight: 80kg (176 lbs)
Body fat: 13%
Cycle history: First at 25 years and the second at 27. Did testo (Galenika) for 10w both times.
Training history: On and off for 10 years[/quote]

did you get this cycle from Elite Fitness?

for the record, do not take Ostarine (MK-2866) in post cycle… those yahoos over there keep pushing that, and claim it’s not suppressive. well, it’s not suppressive… at 3 mg/day. 25 mg/day is an entirely different story…

GW is pointless in PCT as well… to be honest, i haven’t seen many people that were actually impressed with it that weren’t clearly posters being paid on behalf of the company selling it.


#13

[quote]marlonb wrote:
Thank you for all the advice, I really appreciate it. It’s a jungle out there and I trying to find some useful information. It’s really hard when different forums write different answers.

Based on your information and the sticky threads, I’ve modified my cycle. I already have Anavar at home so I can just as well use it.

Cycle
Weeks 1-4: Dianabol @ 30mgs ED
Weeks 1-12: Test E @ 400mgs/w E3D
Weeks 6-12: Anavar @ 40mgs ED

PCT
Weeks 1-8: Aromasin @ 2x12,5mgs EOD
Weeks 2-7: Nolva @ 40/20/20/20mgs [/quote]

here’s some reading on PCT: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/thoughts_on_planning_pct


#14

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]marlonb wrote:
Hi guys!
I have tried to read as much as possible to learn how to combine a cycle with good results with minimum side effects. I a need a second opinion on this program.

I appreciate all info.

Cycle
Weeks 1-4: Dianabol @ 20/20/30/30mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Test E @ 500mgs/w E3D
Weeks 1-10: Tren E @ 400mgs/w E3D
Weeks 6-10: Anavar @ 40mgs ED

PCT
Weeks 1-2: HCGemerate @ 5caps ED
Weeks 1-6: GW-501516 @ 20mgs ED (10 AM / 10 PM)
Weeks 3-6: Clomid @ 50/50/25/25mgs
Weeks 3-6: Nolva @ 40/20/20/20mgs
Weeks 3-6: Aromasin @*12,5mgs EOD
Weeks 3-6: N2Guard (2caps AM / 2caps Post Workout / 3capsPM)
Weeks 3-6: MK-2866 @*25mgs ED

Stats
Age: 30
Height: 187cm (73.6 inch)
Weight: 80kg (176 lbs)
Body fat: 13%
Cycle history: First at 25 years and the second at 27. Did testo (Galenika) for 10w both times.
Training history: On and off for 10 years[/quote]

did you get this cycle from Elite Fitness?

for the record, do not take Ostarine (MK-2866) in post cycle… those yahoos over there keep pushing that, and claim it’s not suppressive. well, it’s not suppressive… at 3 mg/day. 25 mg/day is an entirely different story…

GW is pointless in PCT as well… to be honest, i haven’t seen many people that were actually impressed with it that weren’t clearly posters being paid on behalf of the company selling it.

[/quote]
Sponsors are always pushing research chems and lying about the dose/results.


#15

nooberific,
My bad for not being clear enough. The weeks below is for my Post-Cycle-Therapy. So when I wrote 1-8 weeks, i ment on my PCT plan. So it would be week 13-20 on my whole cycle plan.
PCT
Weeks 1-8 (13-20): Aromasin @ 2x12,5mgs EOD
Weeks 2-7 (14-19): Nolva @ 40/20/20/20mgs

eatliftsleep,
Sorry man, I can understand your point of view. I have been reading about this for 2 months, but it’s hard get the whole picture when there’s a lot of bro-science out there.

cycobushmaster,
Thank you for the links, I’ll read them right away. I got the PCT from another forum. I actually had a more simple PCT plan at first but when I posted my plan I got criticized on the lack of PCT supplements.

All of you, thanks and keep it the good work in here!


#16

[quote]marlonb wrote:
nooberific,
My bad for not being clear enough. The weeks below is for my Post-Cycle-Therapy. So when I wrote 1-8 weeks, i ment on my PCT plan. So it would be week 13-20 on my whole cycle plan.
PCT
Weeks 1-8 (13-20): Aromasin @ 2x12,5mgs EOD
Weeks 2-7 (14-19): Nolva @ 40/20/20/20mgs

eatliftsleep,
Sorry man, I can understand your point of view. I have been reading about this for 2 months, but it’s hard get the whole picture when there’s a lot of bro-science out there.

cycobushmaster,
Thank you for the links, I’ll read them right away. I got the PCT from another forum. I actually had a more simple PCT plan at first but when I posted my plan I got criticized on the lack of PCT supplements.

All of you, thanks and keep it the good work in here![/quote]

Makes a little more sense but still needs work.

You don’t need an 8 week PCT. 4-6 is enough. Read what I posted about your AI (aromasin).


#17

[quote]nooberific wrote:

[quote]marlonb wrote:
nooberific,
My bad for not being clear enough. The weeks below is for my Post-Cycle-Therapy. So when I wrote 1-8 weeks, i ment on my PCT plan. So it would be week 13-20 on my whole cycle plan.
PCT
Weeks 1-8 (13-20): Aromasin @ 2x12,5mgs EOD
Weeks 2-7 (14-19): Nolva @ 40/20/20/20mgs

eatliftsleep,
Sorry man, I can understand your point of view. I have been reading about this for 2 months, but it’s hard get the whole picture when there’s a lot of bro-science out there.

cycobushmaster,
Thank you for the links, I’ll read them right away. I got the PCT from another forum. I actually had a more simple PCT plan at first but when I posted my plan I got criticized on the lack of PCT supplements.

All of you, thanks and keep it the good work in here![/quote]

Makes a little more sense but still needs work.

You don’t need an 8 week PCT. 4-6 is enough. Read what I posted about your AI (aromasin).
[/quote]

The duration of pct isn’t actually as clear cut an answer as most people believe. There is evidence of a longer pct having potential benefits. I know cyco recommends at least 6 weeks if using Nolva only. 2 additional weeks should not be a problem.


#18

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]nooberific wrote:

[quote]marlonb wrote:
nooberific,
My bad for not being clear enough. The weeks below is for my Post-Cycle-Therapy. So when I wrote 1-8 weeks, i ment on my PCT plan. So it would be week 13-20 on my whole cycle plan.
PCT
Weeks 1-8 (13-20): Aromasin @ 2x12,5mgs EOD
Weeks 2-7 (14-19): Nolva @ 40/20/20/20mgs

eatliftsleep,
Sorry man, I can understand your point of view. I have been reading about this for 2 months, but it’s hard get the whole picture when there’s a lot of bro-science out there.

cycobushmaster,
Thank you for the links, I’ll read them right away. I got the PCT from another forum. I actually had a more simple PCT plan at first but when I posted my plan I got criticized on the lack of PCT supplements.

All of you, thanks and keep it the good work in here![/quote]

Makes a little more sense but still needs work.

You don’t need an 8 week PCT. 4-6 is enough. Read what I posted about your AI (aromasin).
[/quote]

The duration of pct isn’t actually as clear cut an answer as most people believe. There is evidence of a longer pct having potential benefits. I know cyco recommends at least 6 weeks if using Nolva only. 2 additional weeks should not be a problem.[/quote]

You are right on that point, no idea why I thought 2 would make any difference.


#19

I do quite long PCTs generally, even though I usually feel recovered by week 2.