Second Cycle

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:

[quote]championrugby wrote:

Absolutely anything is an option. I can choose to chew ampules of test, it IS an option. I said “I’ll look into if that’s an option I’d like to take or not some more.” and that’s what I plan on doing. Look into whether or not that is an option I’d like to take or not.
[/quote]

Travel at the speed of light? [/quote]

Hahaha

And yes, chewing amps is a helluva rush, but my dentist bills were out of control.

I’ve had to replan my cycle because of a recent change in pricing and availability of gear by my source. I know of other sources that could supply my needs, but I don’t have first hand experience with them. I’m going to stick with a source I know will come through, so here’s the new plan:

Cycle
Test Prop WK 1 - 12 100mg EOD (4200mg)
Winstrol WK 1 - 6 50mg ED (2100mg) (in oral form, unfortunately)

Clenbuterol WK 1, 3, 4 ,6 120mcg ED (3360mg)
Nolvadex WK 2 - 12 10mg ED (700mg)

PCT (3 days after last injection)
Nolvadex 40/30/20/20 ED (770mg)

If I could do whatever I wanted to do, I’d take a ton of Test E and Dbol, get big as a house again, and love every minute of it. But seeing as I can’t “get big” I think this cycle will produce something I’m pretty happy with: Stronger, slightly bigger, more toned. As for the Clen, I plan on easing into it on the first week starting at 60mg ED, and feeling out what I’m comfortable with. 120mg ED is the absolute max I’m willing to go to. The Nolvadex is scheduled in case I have water retention. I won’t start taking it unless I do.

Thoughts would be appreciated.

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
And yes, chewing amps is a helluva rush, but my dentist bills were out of control. [/quote]

Haha, I love it!

Why is this shit in the steroid section?..fuck

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

Why is this shit in the steroid section?..fuck[/quote]

Oh, you must have missed the part where I plan on taking Prop & Winny. It’s up there just a few lines.

I see now that asking for anyone’s thoughts was a general invite for guys that take gear at 21 and risk their natural production to just hop on in with whatever pops into their head.

I guess we’re both assholes.

[quote]championrugby wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

Why is this shit in the steroid section?..fuck[/quote]

Oh, you must have missed the part where I plan on taking Prop & Winny. It’s up there just a few lines.

I see now that asking for anyone’s thoughts was a general invite for guys that take gear at 21 and risk their natural production to just hop on in with whatever pops into their head.

I guess we’re both assholes.[/quote]

I started at 20, I’m not too concerned about my natural production.

But enough about me…it’s hard to take a guy seriously who is only running 100mg EOD of test with no AI and rat poison like clen in the interest of getting “toned”…that’s all i was saying.

Is it weird getting steroid advice from a kid or some shit?

[quote]
I started at 20, I’m not too concerned about my natural production.

But enough about me…it’s hard to take a guy seriously who is only running 100mg EOD of test with no AI and rat poison like clen in the interest of getting “toned”…that’s all i was saying.

Is it weird getting steroid advice from a kid or some shit?[/quote]

It is weird.

Help me understand why you said you were 21, not 20 in your first post titled “First Cycle”. Is it because you thought others might try to discourage you from using gear?

But your right, enough about you. Let’s talk about me.
I’m taking Test Prop at a measly 100mg EOD because it’s a short ester, in and out of my system quickly, less likely to retain water (remember that part). 100mg EOD isn’t really that light of a dosage- this is not Test E. I’m also taking Winny because it’s not likely to retain water (there it is again!) and as I’ve never tried it before, it’s certainly on the list of “things to do”.

So, I’m taking these two steroids that aren’t likely to retain water because I can’t get my hands on an AI from a source I trust 100%. I think I said that earlier. But just in case I’ve got enough Nolva on hand to handle the unlikely bloating.

So why the rat poison. Hell, I was considering T3 as well but that would be overkill. I need to keep relatively small for my job. And when I say small I mean small by T-Nation standards, not real life standards (XL/XXL). Also, I run 5 or so miles a day, bicycle twice a week for 30 miles, rock climb when I have the time. If I was 15 - 20lbs heavier I would be working against myself in my other activities. I’m not saying that building a body that’s “just for show”, or is very good at lifting dumb bells, or bar fights is a bad thing. It’s just not my thing. I need to continue to be strong, functional, and light on my feet. I’m already the biggest mother fucker in a bicycle pack, or side of a ledge. I don’t need unnecessary weight to hold me down.

[quote]championrugby wrote:

Lol don’t try to “educate” me. You are correct that test prop is a short ester, which is why it is optimally pinned ED to maintain steady blood levels.

You do realize that bloating isn’t the only estrogenic side effect steroid users are concerned about right? Though I do suppose that nolva would be enough to keep away gyno…

and the reason I said I was 21 in my first thread here was because I was less than 1 month away from turning 21…So I figured I was close enough.

Testosterone is testosterone. Testosterone aromatizes to estrogen.

Please explain how test propionate (if used consistently, preferably ED, for a 12 week cycle) will aromatize less than an equal amount of testosterone enanthate, taking into account the ester weights in determination of “equal amount”.

Not being a dick, I’m just sincerely interested in why you believe this is this case.

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Testosterone is testosterone. Testosterone aromatizes to estrogen.

Please explain how test propionate (if used consistently, preferably ED, for a 12 week cycle) will aromatize less than an equal amount of testosterone enanthate, taking into account the ester weights in determination of “equal amount”.

Not being a dick, I’m just sincerely interested in why you believe this is this case. [/quote]

OP is an idiot. Youre speaking on deaf ears.

It’s nice that youre trying but guys like the OP dont learn. They just grab the shiniest object and play until interest is lost.

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Testosterone is testosterone. Testosterone aromatizes to estrogen.

Please explain how test propionate (if used consistently, preferably ED, for a 12 week cycle) will aromatize less than an equal amount of testosterone enanthate, taking into account the ester weights in determination of “equal amount”.

Not being a dick, I’m just sincerely interested in why you believe this is this case. [/quote]

You’re not, and it is a valid question. The internet offers a wide variety of information on steroid use, unfortuanatley almost all of it is users personal experiences, and very rarely do I stumble upon an actual scientific study, especially on specific subjects. So, from reading other forums I’ve time and time again come to the conclusion that Test P is considerably less likely to cause water retention. Reasons given are “because it’s only in your system for a few days, and doesn’t have time to.” that simply cannot be true, and in general any crackhead can pass his 6 cents off as truth.

Some sites, and my source, stress that this is also the case, with little or no real scientific explanation given. I give websites more credit, but certainly take their findings with a grain of salt. Some of them are:

“most people from other discussion boards who have tried differing esters on their various cycles agree: Testosterone Propionate causes the least side effects and the least bloating. For this reason, its often the testosterone of choice in cutting cycles.”

“Another nice advantage of propionate is that it causes less bloating than longer acting esters. Besides the cosmetic advantage it allows test to be used while cutting â?? perfect for competitive bodybuilders. This alone is why you can never tell a prop lover â??test is test.â?? There is a difference. How much of a difference, however, is arguable.”

“Another benefit of using testosterone propionate is that is causes less water retention than other testosterones. This is attractive to those who want the mass and strength gains of testosterone without as much bloat. Itâ??s also invaluable to competing bodybuilders who want to maintain size, strength and libido up to contest time but without excessive bloat.”

There you have it. I sincerely wish I could give you professionally supported proof- I wish I could give myself professionally support proof on a what a proper cycle for my specific goals, but that isn’t easy to come by, and that’s why I’m on forums.

Also, to throw in a kicker, there is actually more testosterone in 100mg of Prop than say Enanth, so there is more test that could convert to estrogen. If anyone can clue us in I’d appreciate it.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Testosterone is testosterone. Testosterone aromatizes to estrogen.

Please explain how test propionate (if used consistently, preferably ED, for a 12 week cycle) will aromatize less than an equal amount of testosterone enanthate, taking into account the ester weights in determination of “equal amount”.

Not being a dick, I’m just sincerely interested in why you believe this is this case. [/quote]

OP is an idiot. Youre speaking on deaf ears.

It’s nice that youre trying but guys like the OP dont learn. They just grab the shiniest object and play until interest is lost. [/quote]

I’ve got like 23 posts on the board! How has this thread proved that I’m not open to learning and more information? Have my actions on this thread proved that I’m a complete idiot, not willing to listen, or are you saying this because your pal Mr. Walkway called you in to help sling some shit because he wasn’t doing so hot? You seem to be pretty buddy buddy judging by your post histories, I think your the one who coached him on his first cycle right?

you sir, are an idiot

[quote]cementhedd wrote:
you sir, are an idiot[/quote]

Fuck.

Well at least it was formally worded.

[quote]championrugby wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Testosterone is testosterone. Testosterone aromatizes to estrogen.

Please explain how test propionate (if used consistently, preferably ED, for a 12 week cycle) will aromatize less than an equal amount of testosterone enanthate, taking into account the ester weights in determination of “equal amount”.

Not being a dick, I’m just sincerely interested in why you believe this is this case. [/quote]

OP is an idiot. Youre speaking on deaf ears.

It’s nice that youre trying but guys like the OP dont learn. They just grab the shiniest object and play until interest is lost. [/quote]

or are you saying this because your pal Mr. Walkway called you in to help sling some shit because he wasn’t doing so hot? You seem to be pretty buddy buddy judging by your post histories, I think your the one who coached him on his first cycle right?

Look man, don’t make this weird. Just take the advice that was given to you in this thread, do a little more research and you will be set.

just "speculating " but could test prop cause less bloating due to the fact that it is injected ED or EOD atleast to maintain more stable blood levels thus causing less “peaks and valleys” then say test E that is shot E3D or even once a week by some less savvy users?

From what I understand, test is test, it aromatizes. I also know that the more stable your levels, the less likely you will experience unwanted sides such as bloating.

So I can see where test prop could get this rep, but only by the the speed at which the ester cleaves off and injection schedule.

Does that make sense or is my logic faulty?

[quote]championrugby wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
Testosterone is testosterone. Testosterone aromatizes to estrogen.

Please explain how test propionate (if used consistently, preferably ED, for a 12 week cycle) will aromatize less than an equal amount of testosterone enanthate, taking into account the ester weights in determination of “equal amount”.

Not being a dick, I’m just sincerely interested in why you believe this is this case. [/quote]

OP is an idiot. Youre speaking on deaf ears.

It’s nice that youre trying but guys like the OP dont learn. They just grab the shiniest object and play until interest is lost. [/quote]

I’ve got like 23 posts on the board! How has this thread proved that I’m not open to learning and more information? Have my actions on this thread proved that I’m a complete idiot, not willing to listen, or are you saying this because your pal Mr. Walkway called you in to help sling some shit because he wasn’t doing so hot? You seem to be pretty buddy buddy judging by your post histories, I think your the one who coached him on his first cycle right?

More often than not I do not agree with Mr.Walkway. In fact I think he posts a fair amount of garbage at times. Im not even sure why his name came up as I didnt quote his post.

I dont have any buddies here. Its the fucking internet you weirdo. I have a normal life in the real world.

Ive gathered that youre an idiot because instead of reading what people are saying and taking the time to see if theyre right or not, youre instantly responding with a reply that either misses the point or further shows that you are simply parroting information that everyone here has read 1000s of times over.

We’ve all read the bigcat ‘steroid profiles’ or whatever site youre pulling info from. Use some common sense. How many hits do you think a site would get if the individual steroid profiles all sounded extremely similar (which they should based on the actions of these drugs)?

[quote]bchrisen wrote:
just "speculating " but could test prop cause less bloating due to the fact that it is injected ED or EOD atleast to maintain more stable blood levels thus causing less “peaks and valleys” then say test E that is shot E3D or even once a week by some less savvy users?

From what I understand, test is test, it aromatizes. I also know that the more stable your levels, the less likely you will experience unwanted sides such as bloating.

So I can see where test prop could get this rep, but only by the the speed at which the ester cleaves off and injection schedule.

Does that make sense or is my logic faulty?[/quote]

Im going with the fact that bodybuulders tend to use prop during fat loss phases and the beginning of contest preps. And long esters during muscle gain phases. Diet has a huge effect on water retention.

Also, most people dont know the difference between water retention (bloating) and just being fatter than they think they are.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]bchrisen wrote:
just "speculating " but could test prop cause less bloating due to the fact that it is injected ED or EOD atleast to maintain more stable blood levels thus causing less “peaks and valleys” then say test E that is shot E3D or even once a week by some less savvy users?

From what I understand, test is test, it aromatizes. I also know that the more stable your levels, the less likely you will experience unwanted sides such as bloating.

So I can see where test prop could get this rep, but only by the the speed at which the ester cleaves off and injection schedule.

Does that make sense or is my logic faulty?[/quote]

Im going with the fact that bodybuulders tend to use prop during fat loss phases and the beginning of contest preps. And long esters during muscle gain phases. Diet has a huge effect on water retention.

Also, most people dont know the difference between water retention (bloating) and just being fatter than they think they are.
[/quote]
Fair enough