T Nation

Second Cycle


I know my way around the gym, eat very well, recently graduated from a school where I played a sport.

Male, 25
5'9" 187lbs

More strength, more definition, 185 - 195lbs

I'm planning my second cycle. My first was absolutely awesome.(http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/championrugby#myForums/thread/2285836/) I loved the results, I had a great time lifting, it was great. The only negative side effect I had was I was full of water weight by the end of it. At week 10 I was a water balloon. I'm posting to get some advice on how to avoid that this time around. I have a job that basically demands I stay much slimmer than I'd like to, so that's why I'd like to the water weight this time.

My first cycle was:
WK 1-10 Testosterone Enanthate 250mg E3D (500mg Per Week)
WK 1-7 Dianabol 40mg ED (280mg Per Week)

I tried a test taper + Nolvadex, but I felt like it took me longer to "bounce back". All I really "bounced back" from was no sex drive and being a water balloon.

This cycle I'd like to run:
WK 1-8 Turanabol 60mg ED (420mg Per Week)
WK 1-12 Testosterone Enanthate 300mg Twice a Week (600mg Per Week)

PCT 3 days after last Injection
WK 11: Nolvadex 40mg ED
WK 12: Nolvadex 40mg ED
WK 13: Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 14: Nolvadex 20mg ED

I'm taking Turanabol because I witnessed how fantastic it worked out for two friends of mine on an oral only cycle of Turanabol at 40mg ED for 7 weeks. They weren't prepared for anabolics, didnt have their diet in order (both worked/ate at a pizza shop every day + boozed) and weren't dedicated to the gym. It still worked miracles for both of them, without the water weight.

I'm not dead set on or against Test E, but I do want to give Tbol a try. I've been considering Anavar, but it really is too expesive to justify. It isn't that I can't afford it (not that I'm made of money or anything), it's that I think those are dollars better spent on other gear. I'm considering using Tren instead of Test, but I have no experience with it at all.

Any suggestions would be great, always some good advice to be had on this board.


With test E, your pct should begin 2 weeks after your last injection, not 3 days. Also I don't see any mention of an AI.

While Tbol is a decent drug, I doubt you will find it to be a "miracle worker".

As for "tren isntead of test", I sincerely hope you were joking.

Although tren E AND test E with the Tbol kickstart would be a very nice cycle

perhaps consider frontloading both tren E and test E and then use the TBol to bridge to pct

either way...it looks like you need to do more research..


i wouldn't frontload tren e if you've never used tren before. Let it build slowly. If you think test and tren are interchangeable, then I certainly wouldn't use tren.


Save the tren for a future cycle. ( should be run with at least a low dose of test, not by itself)

Use an AI to avoid unwanted side (like the bloat you mentioned)

Front load the test and run tbol the last 8 weeks of cycle up until day before starting pct


Thanks for your input, and yes I was considering Tren instead of Test. I'll look into if that's an option I'd like to take or not some more. As for Tbol being a miracle drug, I certainly believe it to be highly underrated after seeing two close friends use it.

Everyone else, thanks for the input, and I'll look into running an AI.


Thanks bchrisen, your post is straight to the point and very helpful.


What do you mean? Didn't you gather from this thread that this is not an option? Tren and test are certainly not interchangeable....


Absolutely anything is an option. I can choose to chew ampules of test, it IS an option. I said "I'll look into if that's an option I'd like to take or not some more." and that's what I plan on doing. Look into whether or not that is an option I'd like to take or not.

On a serious note, what I'm actually considering is Test E or Tren with a small amount of Test E.


Travel at the speed of light?




And yes, chewing amps is a helluva rush, but my dentist bills were out of control.


I've had to replan my cycle because of a recent change in pricing and availability of gear by my source. I know of other sources that could supply my needs, but I don't have first hand experience with them. I'm going to stick with a source I know will come through, so here's the new plan:

Test Prop WK 1 - 12 100mg EOD (4200mg)
Winstrol WK 1 - 6 50mg ED (2100mg) (in oral form, unfortunately)

Clenbuterol WK 1, 3, 4 ,6 120mcg ED (3360mg)
Nolvadex WK 2 - 12 10mg ED (700mg)

PCT (3 days after last injection)
Nolvadex 40/30/20/20 ED (770mg)

If I could do whatever I wanted to do, I'd take a ton of Test E and Dbol, get big as a house again, and love every minute of it. But seeing as I can't "get big" I think this cycle will produce something I'm pretty happy with: Stronger, slightly bigger, more toned. As for the Clen, I plan on easing into it on the first week starting at 60mg ED, and feeling out what I'm comfortable with. 120mg ED is the absolute max I'm willing to go to. The Nolvadex is scheduled in case I have water retention. I won't start taking it unless I do.

Thoughts would be appreciated.


Haha, I love it!


Why is this shit in the steroid section?...fuck


Oh, you must have missed the part where I plan on taking Prop & Winny. It's up there just a few lines.

I see now that asking for anyone's thoughts was a general invite for guys that take gear at 21 and risk their natural production to just hop on in with whatever pops into their head.

I guess we're both assholes.


I started at 20, I'm not too concerned about my natural production.

But enough about me..it's hard to take a guy seriously who is only running 100mg EOD of test with no AI and rat poison like clen in the interest of getting "toned"..that's all i was saying.

Is it weird getting steroid advice from a kid or some shit?


It is weird.

Help me understand why you said you were 21, not 20 in your first post titled "First Cycle". Is it because you thought others might try to discourage you from using gear?

But your right, enough about you. Let's talk about me.
I'm taking Test Prop at a measly 100mg EOD because it's a short ester, in and out of my system quickly, less likely to retain water (remember that part). 100mg EOD isn't really that light of a dosage- this is not Test E. I'm also taking Winny because it's not likely to retain water (there it is again!) and as I've never tried it before, it's certainly on the list of "things to do".

So, I'm taking these two steroids that aren't likely to retain water because I can't get my hands on an AI from a source I trust 100%. I think I said that earlier. But just in case I've got enough Nolva on hand to handle the unlikely bloating.

So why the rat poison. Hell, I was considering T3 as well but that would be overkill. I need to keep relatively small for my job. And when I say small I mean small by T-Nation standards, not real life standards (XL/XXL). Also, I run 5 or so miles a day, bicycle twice a week for 30 miles, rock climb when I have the time. If I was 15 - 20lbs heavier I would be working against myself in my other activities. I'm not saying that building a body that's "just for show", or is very good at lifting dumb bells, or bar fights is a bad thing. It's just not my thing. I need to continue to be strong, functional, and light on my feet. I'm already the biggest mother fucker in a bicycle pack, or side of a ledge. I don't need unnecessary weight to hold me down.


Lol don't try to "educate" me. You are correct that test prop is a short ester, which is why it is optimally pinned ED to maintain steady blood levels.

You do realize that bloating isn't the only estrogenic side effect steroid users are concerned about right? Though I do suppose that nolva would be enough to keep away gyno..

and the reason I said I was 21 in my first thread here was because I was less than 1 month away from turning 21..So I figured I was close enough.


Testosterone is testosterone. Testosterone aromatizes to estrogen.

Please explain how test propionate (if used consistently, preferably ED, for a 12 week cycle) will aromatize less than an equal amount of testosterone enanthate, taking into account the ester weights in determination of "equal amount".

Not being a dick, I'm just sincerely interested in why you believe this is this case.


OP is an idiot. Youre speaking on deaf ears.

It's nice that youre trying but guys like the OP dont learn. They just grab the shiniest object and play until interest is lost.