T Nation

Second Cycle


First Cycle

100mg test prop ED for 7 weeks
50mg Dbol ED 4 weeks (3-7)

Adex .25mg eod (bumped up to .5mg eod after beginning dbol)

PCT nolva 40 40 20


weeks 1-8

Test prop 50mg ED
Tren ace 50mg ED
Masteron Prop 50mg ED

week 9
test prop 100mg ED (Just feel that stopping 3 substances at once would be bad)

weeks 1-5
Tbol 50mg ED

Have Caber on hand (.25mg 2x a week is proper dosage?)

Adex will be .25mg eod

HCG 250iu 2x a week starting after 14 days and ending on last injection of testosterone

pct will be nolva 40/40/20/20

comments and advice welcome

I was considering bumping up the test tren and masteron to 525 a week, but almost 2 grams of aas seemed excessive for a second cycle


Why cut the Prop out so much sooner than the Mast and Tren? They run out about the same time so why not cut them at the same time?

I'd run the tbol 6 weeks and wouldn't up the Mast and Tren doses, pointless IMO...


I am not cutting out the test prop...I am running it longer.

I will continue to run it after i drop tren and masteron for 1 week.




Because I feel that stopping 3 compounds at the same time after 8 weeks of use would result in a crash/depression.

If i am wrong to think this someone please chime in


Yeah that's wrong man. Wait 3 or 4 days after your last shot, the levels in your blood will slowly lower, not crash, then start up your PCT and you'll be golden. You can look up the Test taper method if you'd prefer that, but the standard SERM PCT is the norm and it works great. Sorry about misreading your first post


thanks jacked fibraz.

if bonez, westclock, or bbb would chime in with advice, that would be greatly appreciated


OK lets see second cycle and have never tried tren or mast before obviously. Not as an absolute rule, but often times higher doses of test when paired with higher doses of tren lead to the imfamous tren sides. I will hope and assume you know what they are. However, and speaking of BBB this was a protocol I learned from him years ago and have successfully followed myself on my last 3 tren runs.

By keeping test down to virtual TRT levels say around 200mg a week total, imfamous tren sides do not appear. To give you some context since I havent been around much in recent months and many of the names here are newer, I have ran 1G/wk of test and 400mg/wk of tren before. It was nice for strength and mass. But I could not breathe, I had 160/100 BP, pulse sky high, constant need to hydrate, night sweats, and borderline sexual issues [arguably only combatted by enough caber].

Then BBB turned me onto the above referenced protcol. Running 200mg/wk test I have run as much as 700mg/wk of tren and BP was still 115/75, aerobic capacity was not compromised. Basically I would say I had 1/10th the tren sides despite nearly double the tren dose. Alongside this 200 test 700 tren I have also run mast anywhere from 400-600mg/wk. I no longer cycle per se in that I blast and cruise and am always on something.

I do by definition cycle the tren in 6-10 week waves maybe once or twice a year depending on various factors. Its also very true that will almost all compounds there is a point of diminishing return. Speaking from experience 350-400mg a week of tren is 80-85% as effective as 700mg a week. So to address the OP 50mg TRA/ED is a very fine and common starting point. I would however, drop that test prop dose almost in half. Granted 350mg isnt really that much.

My own experience finds my max toleration for test to be 250mg a week when paired with tren. Well whats an extra 100mg a week you might wonder, well try it and see I guess. If you get any of the classic tren sides reduce test and I bet they dissipate. Mast dosing dose not seem to worse the tren sides.

However, too much mast for some can create literal discomfort from being too tight so to speak. Training on mast and tren without adequate hydration is begging for cramps et al.
I cannot give you the science behind why low test high tren works I just know it does. Perhaps if BBB cruises in here he will lay the science down.


thank you saps

and yes I agree with the low test with tren combo

I would be implementing that, however the vials are a mix of 50mg of test tren and masteron...sadly


It's a lot of gear in general for a second cycle. You'd maybe have side effects with any cycle that's 1.5g per week, even test only. Tren is also a lot stronger mg per mg than other steroids.

My recommendations would be to not take the tbol, and up the masteron dose a little. Orals tend to have more side effects, like nausea, and I don't think the tbol will help with gains much. Increasing the amount of masteron would be awesome, if you can.

I wouldn't use the caber at all. If you decide to use it, wait until at least the 2nd week. That way, if you get side effects, you'll know what they're from. You could do something similar with the tren. Start the cycle with the test prop and masteron, then add the tren after a week, and you'll know if certain side effects are caused by tren specifically.

It's a good cycle though. You could add hCG or peptides like ghrp if you want to add more things to the cycle.

Saps: As far as a scientific explanation for the low test/high tren thing, I think Bill Roberts mightve explained it a while back, I'm not sure though. But, low test/high tren is definitely the way to go. Tren at ~700mg and dbol at 5mg, maybe 10mg per day sounds interesting.


If Im guessing right the compounds he is using is mixed together so 1 ml is 150mg of TP, TA and Mast.
Cut-Stack or something, was offered to buy it for my first cycle.


that is exactly right, 150mg per ml

50mg of each

To havre, i ran over 1g of aas my first cycle and didnt suffer any side effects (besides gaining 25 pounds), So i do not believe that another .5g will make too much of a difference even though i am running different compounds.

Saps i know that running high test with tren is begging for side effects, but would a 1:1 ratio be acceptable for the evasion of said effects?


also any other advice on the caber?

I also have a little dbol left over

maybe ill alternate the Tbol on non lifting days with Dbol on lifting days...an interesting thought?


Its not so much the ratio as the total dose. Again, as long as I cap my test at 200-250mg/wk I can run as much mast and test as I please. Now I'll say again you never know till you try but if you are locked into a 50/50/50 blend try and make the most of it. Maybe try something like .7ml ED. That's give you 35/35/35 ED and 245 per compound per week. So still around 700-750 of gear a week and as long as its legit gear you will gain on those dose levels.


That's a good call saps, I might have to implement that sort of dosing strategy if the side effects become unbearable.

but aside from the unchangeable testosterone dose..does everything else look acceptable?


Yup, if you dont response to 700-750mg a week either your gear is fake or you're not doing something right. I've run 1500mg+ a week before and Im just high cruising on around 500test now and on that Im still making progress. More is better to a point, but sometimes more is just more.


k also, how the fuck do i make the hcg

i have 2 vials of it, and this weird solution shit


You mix the solution and powder


should have seen that coming...

i dont feel right injecting something i made myself haha, but it looks like i have no choice.

thanks everyone for the advice.