T Nation

Second Cycle - Test E, Deca, Winstrol


#1

Hey fella's.
Been lurking these forums for a quite some time and I finaly got the guts to post a thread regarding my second cycle.

Planning my second cycle,
done a 300mg/w test cypionate cycle as starter for 4 months ago, did pretty well after my opinion, went up from 79kg to 88kg and fell down to only 87,1kg, BF stayed untouched at 9%.

Here's how I planned:

1-10Test Enant 300mg/w
1-10Deca (long ester) 200mg/w
??-10 Winstrol 25 or 50mg/ED

Winstrol is the only thing Im alittle concerned about, Im getting confused since some people says you should take 150mg everyday, some say take 50mg every other day and some say just take 25mg everyday, since thats the maximum your body can absorb.

Body stats:
Height: 181cm
Weight:89kg

Lifting background:
Been lifting for around 6 years, 4 of them with GOOD traning and from what I can see a GOOD diet.

Bench: 160kg
Squat: 220kg
Dead: 225kg
Militarypress strict: 110kg

My goals with this cycle:
Go up to 93-95kg which I want to keep, without getting TOO much water retention.

Bench 175kg
Squat 240kg
Dead:245-250kg+

I know this looks like a WEAK cycle, but Im very sensetive from what I can see from my first cycle.

Any advices regarding the cycle?


#2

I might work on diet, rather than using AAS, primarily. Being nearly 6ft tall, and still sitting under 200 lbs, a LOT can be done with diet and training, alone.

Now, if you ignore this advice, and continue to use AAS, then:

Using lower amounts of AAS can be good in terms of testing tolerance, sensitivity, etc. of new substances. I don't think your cycle is weak for someone who is relatively new to AAS.

Starting the Deca and test first, seeing reactions, tolerance, etc. from these two, before starting the stanozolol would be wise IMO, even though these two are widely tolerated. It could be started week 4, running it for only six weeks at a lower dose. Based upon your results, you could change dosages in later cycles.

You need to arrange for PCT/estrogen control (e control at least to have on hand). Please do so.

Being that you have never used nor-testosterone before, having some cabergoline on had would not be a terrible idea, though your doses are low enough that e and p control may not be needed on cycle.

I must reiterate, though, that your goals can and should be obtained with good diet and training alone. AAS use is not warranted in your case.


#3

Why are you including the winstrol?


#4

@ midnightamnesia

Thanks for the thoughts, but my diet has been very good the last couple of years (it runs in my family, my father is 190cm and weighs 74kg, and he is eating like a horse), and I have stagnated on those lifts, I've changed workout-programs every 2-3 months to check if the lifts would improve, but without success.

For PCT I used Nolvadex last time and it worked great, no gyno, and my balls came quickly back in shape (I dont know what really quick is, but it didn't take much time), so Ill stick to nolvadex this time also.

@ BONEZ217

After what I've seen normally people would use Dianabol for these type of cycles, but I do not want the excess water weight, so I decided to go with Winstrol which gives the same anabolic effect as Dianabol.


#5

Trust me, dbol is a different beast. The water weight can be controlled with an AI.


#6

I do trust you, but Ill stick with Winstrol to this cycle, Ill get dianabol for another cycle:)


#7

In terms of diet:

All lifters I have ever worked with who are "naturally" skinny greatly overestimate their caloric intake, underestimate their caloric needs, and often start to use AAS because they simply feel their lack of progress is genetic. With all those who have increased their caloric intake sufficiently, they have seen good gains, of about or over 2lbs/wk.

Being that those who DID NOT opt to greatly increase kcals saw fewer gains from using moderate AAS, I can say only from experience that you would do better to get your diet in check first, both to get to a higher level before AAS use, and to potentate the gains you will see on AAS later (having understood caloric needs of hypertrophy).

While Nolva is fine for PCT, it would be wise to have an AI for the cycle.

MID


#8

Hey again Midnight, Appriciate your posts.

I have done like this to check my calorie intake when I stagnated:
I upped my calories by 500 for each month that went by if I didn't gain any weight.
Nowadays Im on 5500 calories /day and on my "eat your favourite dishes" day, I might be up on 6-7000 calories.

After I started my first cycle (300mg /w test cyp) I went up 9kg's and lost 0.9kg after the cycle and I was overwhelmed by the results.

So Im 90% sure it is my genetics, but I don't blame it, Im trying my best to progress.

and about the AI, Ill get some, Im starting my cycle in 2-3 weeks.


#9

While it's not true that winstrol gives the same anabolic effect as dbol, not wanting water weight from methylestradiol is a good enough reason to avoid it.


#10

Oh, I must've missread, it says:
Winstrols anabolic effect can be >measured< with Dianabol's anabolic effect.

Im going to include Dianabol for my next cycle.

Back to the Winstrol, Is 25mg /day from week 4 enough to notice anything?
I got 100 50mg tablets.


#11

50mg/d is the typical dose. More is ok.


#12

Does dbol have a stronger estrogen effect than testosterone mg per mg? Would some people need an AI on 20mg of dbol per day? 140mg of test per week wouldn't require an AI.

It seems like dbol is a much stronger anabolic than winstrol, anavar, etc. I've tried tbol and I think dbol is not really comparable to other orals.


#13

Ok, Ill start with the winstrol from week 4 as /midnightamnesia/ suggested.


#14

Dbol aromatizes to methylestradiol. It's more potent IME. AI dose is hard to make a general statement about


#15

How is Anavar compared to Winstrol and Turanabol?


#16

Thanks, I'm not sure how to dose letrozole since it seems like it takes a few days to notice an effect.

I think it's like Anavar then Winstrol then Turanabol in terms of gains. None of them aromatize. I would just increase the testosterone dose instead of using a-var or t-bol.


#17

I had a 9kg BW net gain from 300mg /w of cypionate, so I doubt I need to up the test e dose since Im stacking with deca 250 w/ and 50mg winstrol ED from week 4.

Ill check my results from this and make a post on this thread when I start the cycle, midways and the end.

Thanks for the replies.


#18

Hello again,

small update,

going into my third week today, shot deca and test yesterday.
My weight has increased by 3kg (6-7 lbs), haven't noticed anything in the gym yet except increased pump and more energy.
Starting with the winnie from monday.

Haven't had any sides yet, sligthly more acne (Im very prone to acne, it's natural for me to have alot of acne...).

Happy with the cycle so far.

Coming with more updates later on.


#19

Going into the last weeks of my cycle, gone up 12kg's so far, BF decreased from 9% to 8.3%.

Lifts:

180kg Benchpress
250kg Deadlift (got like 15kg in store, but didn't want to overload.)
255kg Squat

Hoping to go up another 2-3 kg's with same or lower BF.

Btw, at week 3 or 4 the cap on my Deca fell off while drawing oil, so I went back to my dealer and got a Test E for free, so Im only on Test E and Winstrol from week 3.