T Nation

Second Cycle -- Priorities and Amounts?


Hey guys,

Body stats: male, 25 years old, 5'8'', 170lb, 15%bf (?).

I ran my first cycle last year May to August which consisted of T(estosterone) E(nanthate), A(nastrozole / Arimidex), and N(olvadex / Tamoxifen) planned as follows:

Weeks 1-10 TE 250.000 mg every three days injected into the glutes;
Weeks 1-11 A 0.250 mg every other day injected into the glutes;
Week 12 A 0.125 mg every other day taken as a liquid orally.

Post-cycle therapy was planned as follows:

Week 13 N 20mg twice per day taken as a pill orally;
Weeks 14-16 N 20mg once per day taken as a pill orally.

Throughout I was using alpha lipoic acid and sometimes milk thistle.

I kept my protein and calorie intake very high (probably anything from 3000-7000kcal per day and around 300-600g protein per day). I gained about 6.5 lb muscle, but about 9 lb of fat. I went from about 174 lb to 192.5 lb. I guess that I went from about 17%bf to 20+%bf. I also had a small but noticeable amount of hair loss. There was a small amount of acne on my glutes, the site of testosterone administration, but this cleared up once administration ended. These are things which I would plan to avoid in my next cycle by paying greater attention to diet, and perhaps by using something like Finasteride to counteract hair loss. The small amount of glutal acne did not bother me, and would not bother me in future as long as it did not become worse or spread. Also I could have paid more attention to being exact in following my cycle plans-- sometimes I had delayed injections by a day or two. All in all this first cycle was a useful experiment more than anything else-- it was definitely good for gaining strength as my 1RMs went as follows within weeks: bench 75kg to 102.5 kg, squat 90kg to 145 kg, and deadlift 100kg to 160kg.

I am considering starting a second cycle soon. I am unsure of my priorities as I would like to drop my bodyfat percentage to 9-10% before getting any fatter. I have been on an almost constant deficit for a number of months and the numbers for my lifts have decreased (understandably). General intake averages at 2000 kcal per day.

Ideally I would take on a cycle which would get me strength gains whilst reducing bodyfat-- if that is possible. I'm not interested in 'bulk', only strength and leanness, at the moment. I'm looking forward to using Testosterone again but am unsure of which kind is best for what goal-- all I've used before is enanthate.

Another issue: I'm unsure if the post-cycle therapy was good enough as I was pretty depressed for a while afterwards, and while my strength didn't disappear, it decreased more suddenly that I would have preferred. I may have imagined it but I felt tenderness in the pectoral area and was worried that gyno might set in, though I did not get fat deposits there, and my pecs are currently of a normal leanness for my bodyfat percentage.

I'd be grateful for your advice.


If you only gained 6.5 pounds on a 10 week cycle of Test while eating 3k-7k calories, a) you suck at working out or b) your gear was fake.


You went on a cycle with a 1RM of 75kg in bench? Huh?


your more than 25lbs fat and less then 150lbs lean mass at 5'8 this means you could eat better and train harder for the next 2 months. Get to a much leaner 160lbs at 10-11% BF and then see about getting some real gear and getting some real muscle on you. Or at that point you might understand you have a ways to go before needing a needle.

just an opion


You injected Arimidex?


Thanks for the responses.

I could have trained a lot harder and ate better, which is why I think that my last cycle was at best a useful experiment: now I know what not to do.

I didn't inject Arimidex but took it orally; what I said above was a mistake.

Darkangel; thanks for the advice. This is in fact what I had planned to do, but do you think that getting 160lb at 10-11%bf in two months is really possible without massive strength loss?

Is there any training program which you guys could recommend for someone in my situation (that is, once I'm back on gear)? Something to push me really hard to get big strength gains, and also some nutritional advice (generally, how many calories daily, and how much protein?). I realize that these questions could be answered very differently if steroids are being used.



Regarding strength while dieting, personally it seems only effected when bf% is lower than 8% and calories are really restricted and you are borderline over training and doing cardio 2x per day.