T Nation

Second Cycle Help - Test E followed by Test Prop into PCT

Hey guys!

Looking to start my second cycle.

My first was 100mg/1ml Test Prop EOD for 12 weeks followed by PCT (Nolva).
For my next cycle I was looking at:
Test E 250mg E3D for 10 weeks followed by 1.4ml Test Prop for the last two weeks into PCT 3 days after the last shot.

Arimidex as necessary (took .5mg twice a week as per my first cycle) and HCG 500iu twice a week for the last few weeks (as per my first cycle).

Wondering on peoples thoughts here? I read on a few posts about doing this so as the Test E ester clears the Test Prop carries through until its time to PCT while you’re suppressed anyway.

Or should I just man up and do another full Test Prop cycle? It went ok the first time, pinning EOD can get a bit tiresome though!

Cheers!

I’m confused by this.

Otherwise, that’s similar to what I did for my first cycle, except I used TPP and I used it for a month after stopping my test cyp instead of 2 weeks. Waited 8 days after my last injection to start PCT. Everything felt good. You might want to consider running a cruise dose of test prop for 3 or even 4 weeks at the end while your test e fully clears, especially since your main cycle is short. Why only 10 weeks?

1 Like

If you wanted to do this then you’d have to tinker with the time and dose a little bit. But otherwise it’s perfectly fine.

1 Like

1.4ml of Test Prop EOD works out to be 490mg per week of Test. The idea being that for the last two weeks of the cycle as the Test E leaves my system I continue the prop at the same dosage so I can go into my PCT quicker and get back to normal levels faster. PCT for Prop begins 3 days or so after your last jab, whereas with Test E it’s 2 weeks I believe.

10 weeks of Test E and 2 weeks of Test Prop @ 500mg just works out to be a 12 week cycle which is pretty standard no? My first was 12 weeks, was good. I guess I could run the Test E longer but don’t want to stay on for too long.

Are you suggesting I play with the Prop dosage? I figured 1.4ml EOD gives me about 490mg per week, but I suppose with the Test E still in my system that may elevate me higher still? I guess you could lower it slightly to be safe and run it out for a couple weeks then into PCT.

I guess what I was looking for is; is this a worthwhile thing to do? Has anyone done it that can comment on it? Or do I just stick with the Test E and let it run out into PCT like most do.

ok you mean 1.4ml, got it

1 Like

Yes I did that and it worked nice. You will like it.

ah yep sorry half asleep!

How much Prop did you take in relation to your Test E dose in your final weeks?

With how different the test prop vs test enanthate hits your system you don’t need to do the 1.4 EOD. 100mgs eod is fine and really if you can manage it 50mgs ED will make your last 3 weeks incredible! It’s just something with how that prop released the test that gives it a punch! 100mg EOD would be fine and that gives you three weeks /20 days with that bottle but the 50mg ED is going to almost be a strong step up from 500mgs of test e per week. I tried the 50mgs per day and I won’t go back to 100mg EOD. I did it about 1-2 hours prior to the gym so almost like a pre workout and “punch” doesn’t even cover it really. You will like the 50mgs per day results. If you are worried about PIP those 50mg shots are just 1/2 a ml and even if you are suceptable to PIP they won’t be bad, probably won’t even notice them. I like to use insulin needles and go into my shoulders for some of the shots, don’t do that on shoulder or chest day, you will feel that!

I personally use to love the long chain cycle then switching to short chain like test prop for the last three weeks. However I don’t PCT anymore I just cruise. That’s 50mgs per day is such a difference that I have run 25mgs per day during a cruise and actually had gains! It made me rethink my commitment to the per mg cost savings of long esters like enanthate and cypionate.

So to wrap it up and this is coming from personal experience. After you stop your 250mgs test e shots twice per week then on the day of the week you would usually take your test e shot simply start the test prop. You can choose 100mgs EOD or 50mg ED but you definitely don’t need to try and dose a total of 490mgs of test prop per week. Part of that is because of the way the ester (enanthate or propionate) of the propionate releases the test into your blood stream. The other reason is once you calculate raw test weight from 100mgs of test enanthate you get about 70mgs of raw test and once you calculate 100mgs of test propionate your raw test weight is about 80mgs.
Actually once you average the mgs of test enanthate at 500pw vs 350mg of test prop pw and then adjust for raw test weight it is 350 vs 280 per week and that equals only a 10mgs per day difference. Yet again the way the prop release the test will more than make up the difference and again if you do 50mgs per day it will almost be a step up from the enanthate.

Fantastic response, thank you so much. Really appreciate it and the exact info I was after.

My first cycle was 100mg EOD Test Prop and it was fine, I only got PIP from 1 in 5 shots. But the idea of doing 50mg with an insulin needle is actually way more appealing to me, the only thing I was concerned about was getting corked shoulders as that would be quite debilitating for working out. Can you use the insulin needles elsewhere or do they not reach IM depths? I may just try it and see how it goes.

Getting my blood work done this week then I’ll order my gear!

I forgot to include that the skin on my shoulders is thin so that contributes to the choice. Really you could just subconsciously inject, that is just under the skin and really with a 5/8 of an inch insulin needle I probably have at least part of the shot coming out of the muscle.
To answer your question, in my opinion you can use the longer insulin needles (1/2-5/8 of an inch) anywhere where your skin is thin. Now I don’t think injecting into a bicep would be that comfortable but it is done. A lot of guys have thin skin across their shoulders and traps so I have friends that inject in the head of the trap. Also know guys that go into the head of the triceps. Any of these less common places I would test with a half ml shot before trying a whole ml. Of course there is always the quads as well but I would be more hesitant to use an insulin needle there even with thin skin. With how much we use the quad just to walk and stand I would think it had a better chance of coming out of the muscle but I am not a doctor so keep that in mind with all of this.