T Nation

Second Cycle, Decisions Decisions

so its time to order my gear for my 2nd cycle…important is im about 16, 17 percent bodyfat which is basically identical to my 1st Cycle. i want abs but i want muscle, that look that test gives is great, im 3 weeks into a cruise of 150 ugl mgs per week so could be closer to 100 who knows…im holding water, from the test e and dbol from first cycle but i look built nice tho…id put up some pics but i don’t want others to feel discouraged, im a team leader 1st, and a narcissist 2nd…a true American…ugh…ok um so i want to lose my body fat and have abs, but i know i could put more muscle on and do an true dedicated cut next summer and this year bulk, and kindof polish what i have at the end…

stats 41 5’5 178@3 weeks into cruise of 8 weeks total test e 75mg m/thurs tapering to 50 mg last couple weeks of cruise, starting next cycle week 9{so new week 1 with
total weeks off).

1st cycle was 12 weeks long…dbol 40 mg daily for 4 weeks, 600 mg test e pinned twice,adex 0.25mg when pinned (more during dbol which was a bitch to control, 40 mg was too much, 30 would have done it i was blooooooaateddddddd and lethargic.

I was 150 to 155 depending on how full my stomach was at start, now 177 to 182 depending on stomach volume…177.5 in morning no close on after using bathroom empty stomach, 150 even when i started in morning…was great loved how great i felt…don’t get it twisted the cruise isn’t your savior my energy went bye bye the weights where double even triple in how hard they felt and workouts kicked my ass week 2…week 3 coming now, wish me luck lol…especially if my gear is underdosed enough but im still talking adex .25 every 3 days no signs of crashing my e2 so far ill lower it this week to .125 twice.

ok so i work as a laberor long days sometimes, nothing i cant handle but ill be busy heres what i come up with

cycle 1: test e 450 mg weekly 1-18
eq undeca 750 weekly1-16
dbol 25 mg first 4
winstrol 50 mg weekly 14-20

the goal is lean gains fat lose i plan on no cardio because of the type of work i do high calorie diet on lifting days lower on off days…kind of intermittent fasting up at 3 am not eating til 7 am…250 gm protein throughout cycle carbs hi/low on respective days…

or cycle 2: 600 test e 1-15
masteron enanthate 400mg 1-15
dbol/winstrol as above

into cruise

also i forgot as to the cycle idea including masteron enanthate the idea is to amplify the test and the feel good it comes with…i realize i am not lean enough to reap the cosmetic benefits…thoughts from anyone who has experience with this would be awesome…i know the typical use for masteron in the forums is cutting and grain giving show time cosmetics…

damn that’s a pretty heavy first cycle, that’s more than 2x the dose of my first and (currently second) cycle. Nice gains tho, makes me slightly regret not starting higher, then I remember that the lower I start the lower I have to use in the future.

Anyhow, are you aware of the effect winny (and C17AA orals in general) but particularly winny will have on you’re lipid profile, it’s reversible but it’s fucking dramatic. Why not just run like test and mast or something, keep it simple. Methyltestosteorne (based on literature) anecdotally doesn’t appear to be too bad in regards to lipid strain tho. (like 30 percent decrease in HDL and 30 percent increase in LDL but it was like 30mg/day or something), bioavailability of MT isn’t great tho.

This is a prime example of what I personally don’t think is wise. You’re running over 1g of gear on you’re second cycle, are you planning to compete? If so, then fair game, if not and you’re just a recreational gym goer, I would recommend using less (however it’s you’re life so do whatever I guess).

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The only red flag I see is 2 orals in one cycle. Both those orals are extremely harsh and your planning on essentially 10 weeks of orals.

Im a big fan of winstrol but I’m not sure it would be a good idea with a labor job. I think youl find yourself getting locked up from pumps while your trying to work.

Conclusion: Ditch the dbol run the test/eq you can make great lean gains on that without the water load of dbol and this will open up a oral for the end of the cycle which I would suggest looking into t-bol I think that will pair nicely for what your tryinng to accomplish.

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the dbol water and the pumps it give me on the front of my lower legs are crippling,dbol was never making the cut I just have it leftover…I cant use it saving it for winter with a test pp and npp cycle…at least that’s a pre plan, shit changes…so I tossed it in there to stir the pot…as for winny I have no experience with it, actually anavar was what should have been put there, tbol was a thought at the beginning…its such along cycle with eq, mainly why I choose eq…not that I want to be on cycle forever cuz im a raging juice head, but because I don’t wanna go through a tough pct until oct. work would be torture…
bro I took it easy on my 1st cycle…do what I did, it was awesome, and I missed workouts too lol, single parent sick kid, I got other excuses too, but I never missed back day and deadlifts…I stand by them, even over squats…dbol was a bitch listen fuck 30 mg a day, I went 40, go 25, I promise you that’s perfect…your just getting sides with more… take 10mg 1 hr before you workout and split the remaining 15mg up in 2 doses of your choice…id do 10, 10, 5 so your last dose dosent linger and fuck with your sleep. I also used 600 mg test e a week, because it was ugl stuff and I wanted to do 500…so im positive I did 500 and something but not 600 if you know what I mean

I dont think drugs are a good idea just to throw in because they are left over. I’d def save them for a future bulk cycle.

As far as dbol goes I’m just not a fan of it. I’m already a big guy 6 foot 200-230 the water and glycogen dbol packs on doesn’t appeal to me. I much prefer steady truer gains. I’m also not a fan of heavily aromoatizing compounds.

Anavar would be better in your situation than winstrol but anavar can still bring on some debilitating pumps. I don’t know how physical your labor job is but that could be an issue.

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it aint for the faint of heart lol…………but I was more interested in the eq or masteron……im not taking the dbol it wouldn’t be a good idea I just threw it in there to stir the pot lol…anavar was an idea for a kick start, so was test prop

Do some cardio. Yes yes, you burn a lot at your job, very good. Now do some damn cardio, if for no other reason than taking 30 minutes three times a week and just getting lost in thought while you walk or bike is good for your whole being. Adding a little bit of LISS goes a long way. Trust me. I went from hating cardio to looking forward to it. It’s worth the time and it’s an investment in your health.


I used proviron in my 1st cycle 50 mg for the 1st 50 days I ran out…I think it was a waste the first 30 cuz the test was building up still…so masteron was an idea vs. eq…but im not lean I wont get the cosmetics but if It makes me feel awesome and super amps the test??? plus its an anabolic??? thoughts anyone use it in this situation?

just to be clear I want to avoid 19 nors

winter thing I don’t want water bloat…hence dbol was never really gonna happen…

Mast is slightly anabolic. I think you have the right idea of what mast would offer you in your situation. Lowering shbg thus allowing more free test.

You can acomplish everything you want from mast or eq as long as your diet and training are on point. If i were you I’d probably run the test and mast. Eq doesn’t really appeal to me. It’s a great drug but not one I’d probably ever run.

Test+mast+tbol or anavar= amazing results granted your diet and training is good.

you get what im trying to say here zeek……like I said I could run proviron again, but I hear mixed reviews on it vs. proviron……masteron enanthate is also a compound best ran for a longer period.

so id go basically my 1st cycle minus the dbol……600mg test e weekly and 400 mast e weekly…oral is secondary or even none at beginning idk…maybe anavar last 8 weeks…like I said the orals are icing to me…the eq/mast is really what all this boils down too…the rest of it is like I said secondary, not as important

Proviron is more or less oral masteron. The only real difference is mast is slightly anabolic. Some people swear by proviron some mast if you weren’t a big fan of proviron you might like mast or you might find it very similar. Either way 400 a week is a great dose for mast to get your money’s worth. It has benefits as low as 100mg a week but I’m all about if your gonna run it run it to its full potential.

As far as last 8 weeks see how you feel when you get there. You could always get tbol and var and start on var if it doesn’t work out switch to the tbol. That’s the beauty of orals your not stuck waiting weeks for then to get out of your system if you start having unwanted sides

Best of luck bro!

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does masteron make you feel good? ive read that, I know test does but ive read together they you just feel good all the time like the whole cycle…

I haven’t used mast yet but its a DHT derivative like winstrol. And they both lower shbg. I know when I added winstrol to my cycle within a few days I had a very heightened sense of well being. The best way to describe it is I started appreciating the smaller things in life. Which overall made me happier. I think a lot of how it effects you is based on what’s going on in your life if your already generally happy etc. If your going thru some hard times or generally unhappy then no I don’t think it’s a cure for depression or anything.

The ah ha moment was when I found myself walking to the gym to appreciate the nice weather. Lol

The biggest downside of winny to me was the tightness. It made me feel like I had just finished blasting a drop set 24/7 this was great and all except when my bsck itched or I’d stretch real hard and my muscles would lock up

I would welcome some tightness as I am watery from the cycle I just ran, the dbol kicked my ass I was like a blown up raft…it was an experience…really struggled with it being a rookie…side city with that shit, always tired, bp elevated…dbol threw 20 some lbs on me in 4 weeks, nice muscle gain right…riiiiiiighttt lol

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I got your response to the other thread. I read the OP and nothing of what followed.


From what I gathered you are wanting some fat lose and some muscle. Stick with just the test and EQ. However I would at least run it 1 to 1. Definitely not 2 to 1 in EQs favor. A lot guys don’t have issues with EQ but some do. If you add your test and EQ mgs together you got 1200 mgs per week. I would do something more along the lines of 400-600 of each but at equal doses.

Drop the winny. Even if you are doing this as a strictly cut cycle you don’t need it. You don’t need to be going to 1500mgs a week on a second cycle. I have numerous cycles and that is where my line is. When I just run two the line is 1200mgs a week, are you sure you are at that point?

The first time I took EQ it was also my second cycle, I was shocked at the definition and vascularity. I remember it was the first time I saw veins popping under my arms as in up in my arm pit. I saw those then when I went to the mirror to see I saw veins on my lats. It’s been on of my regular rotations ever since. I was taking 400 mgs of test and 400 mgs of EQ per week and got that.

You will love the results of just test and EQ. Save your first time with winny for a time you can make the most out of it and properly guage what it does on it’s own. If you mix winny and EQ for their first times together you have no idea which one helped for which result.

You may or may not have a good sense of what your UGLs doses are like. Even with under dosing they are usually at least 80% give or take. Remember they want repeat business and their bottles have to be able to show results so their is no point in sending out 30% bottles unless they are doing a burn and turn. If they are doing a burn and turn why even put hormones in the bottles, just repackage GSO take the money and run. I say all that as the setup for this. You obviously want a stack, just about everyone does it on the second cycle even though we knew we could still be fine with just test. The more you take, as in dose and compounds, the more your body is going to adjust to that. You only get one first time with each compound and usually that’s your best response per mg of dose. Once you start taking any sort of anything at 1 Gram a week then that’s what your body sensitizes too. You could still go back to 500mgs a week but it’s not going to do what it would have if you had not taken 1000 mgs a week.

People say EQ at 400 a week is pointless, I know I got results that I wish I could repeat again at that dose. I wasn’t even trying to cut, I was wanting lean muscle and the scale definitely moved. Those veins were the bonus, I can only wonder what would have happened if I was eating for fat loss vs eating for lean mass.

Your cycle length and planned weeks of each does look good.

EQ is truly a dual purpose compound. It builds and it burns fat, we control that with our diets. If you want a hard veiny six pack you can have that with just test but you are probably going to run EQ with it. The EQ will make your desired results easier to obtain just keep the dose reasonable for your long term AAS career’s sake.

If either of the compounds has to be the higher mg for whatever reason,(such as it’s easier to measure whole or half CCs) then the higher dose should be the test.


I need to read what you’ve said here more than a few times…just like my 1st cycle post. I don’t swing from peoples nuts so to speak…but that being said if any one is reading this I implore them to read my first cycle “to v or not to v” now_i_care he really helped me…I followed what he said and the only thing he was wrong about was nothing…

now_i care_i appreciate and respect you…I hope I don’t end up being annoying to you………….

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