T Nation

Second Cycle Advice

Hi all,

As the title suggests, I am looking for some advice regarding what will be my second cycle.

I completed PCT (nolva 40/40/20/20) from a 10 week Test-E/D-Bol(w1-5) w/Arimidex cycle in May, and am looking to begin a second cycle in December. I went from 220 up to 256, coming back down to 245 after PCT (early June). I have since kept my calories in a small surplus, and have gained naturally back up to 248 as at this morning. I’m at approx 16% bodyfat.

I see my immediate goals over a period of about 12 months at this point:

  • I wish to continue to add muscle through about April next year. I feel at 6’3" I need more mass before cutting.
  • After this, I aim to commence a slow cut in order to preserve as much mass as possible.

Some things I know at the moment

  • I want this second cycle to be a 6-8 weeker, based with Test Prop. After about week 8 on Test-E, I saw diminishing returns, and it really wasn’t worth the extra shut down.

  • I have no interest in Tren.

  • I would prefer this cycle to be leaner than my last, but still a bulk. I gained 5-6lbs too much water/fat than I would have liked too.

My 2 main questions are:

  1. What other compound is best to stack with Prop for these goals, if anything at all?
  2. What sort of caloric surplus should one aim for when conducting a leaner bulk on AAS?

Thanks

i do only 5 week cycles and love em.
for a shorty - you can stack test with dbol, winny or anadrol. but you can gain good on prop alone(75-200mg a day).
if you wanna do just prop, you can up the dosage and do only 4-5 weeks.

what kind of doses you running for your shorties?

I’m starting to become a fan of short cycles myself, I like the idea of using quick esters and doing a quick 8 weeks or so. I agree with what semigall says, a quick short cycle of prop and possible dbol or anavar you can see some decent gains and the plus is you can run more cycles in the year than you could doing 10-12 weekers. I think for my next cycle I’m gonna run what rds is running right now an 8 week test prop/NPP cycle

don’t forget to mega-dose some var!

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

don’t forget to mega-dose some var![/quote]

That’s right I almost forgot! Mega dose it tell my dick falls off right! Haha

I did like the strength gains and overall feelings off of D-bol, despite a little bit more water. Thanks guys, i’ll get to work

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
what kind of doses you running for your shorties?[/quote]

it depends on what you use… my last cycle was 5 weeks long, and i did just test and dbol…
test was like 500mg every 4 days, so its 875mg a week and since i had 4 month off time due to cutting which i did natural i added only 30mg dbol a day but usally id go 40-50mg a day.
due to cutting and being lean and all, i added around 25lbs and kept 19-20 of them but thats also because i started my cycle after a long cut and diet, so i think that at least half of the weight was because of the diet change ofc.

[quote]BUDs wrote:
I’m starting to become a fan of short cycles myself, I like the idea of using quick esters and doing a quick 8 weeks or so. I agree with what semigall says, a quick short cycle of prop and possible dbol or anavar you can see some decent gains and the plus is you can run more cycles in the year than you could doing 10-12 weekers. I think for my next cycle I’m gonna run what rds is running right now an 8 week test prop/NPP cycle[/quote]

i stick to 4-5 week cycles… first of all - i finish the cycle before any sides start… also - my body needs just 2 weeks to recover on its own.
if you do orals, than your liver and kidneys are safe, because they can take a pretty big hits in the short run - its the long run that kills them - like with alcohol - you can get mega-drunk one day and theyll be fine, but if youll drink a bit every night, in a few years your liver will be damaged.

also, you CAN use long esters(i do so with test, because im on tight budget and prop costs twice as sust or test-e) you just need to do a massive front loads…
so, what i do if i have only Test-E? simple : if you wanna start your cycle on monday, doin 500mg every 4 days or so - you do 1g on the saturday and 1g on sunday… Then - start your cycle as planned on monday… The thing is - all your hormone levels will be up when you do your first workout of the cycle.

also - you do more cycles per year, and also - you are almost more time off than time on…
aaand - you dont get huge yo-yo effect on your size which happens when you take 3 months off after a 3 month cycle.

[quote]Semigall wrote:

[quote]BUDs wrote:
I’m starting to become a fan of short cycles myself, I like the idea of using quick esters and doing a quick 8 weeks or so. I agree with what semigall says, a quick short cycle of prop and possible dbol or anavar you can see some decent gains and the plus is you can run more cycles in the year than you could doing 10-12 weekers. I think for my next cycle I’m gonna run what rds is running right now an 8 week test prop/NPP cycle[/quote]

i stick to 4-5 week cycles… first of all - i finish the cycle before any sides start… also - my body needs just 2 weeks to recover on its own.
if you do orals, than your liver and kidneys are safe, because they can take a pretty big hits in the short run - its the long run that kills them - like with alcohol - you can get mega-drunk one day and theyll be fine, but if youll drink a bit every night, in a few years your liver will be damaged.

also, you CAN use long esters(i do so with test, because im on tight budget and prop costs twice as sust or test-e) you just need to do a massive front loads…
so, what i do if i have only Test-E? simple : if you wanna start your cycle on monday, doin 500mg every 4 days or so - you do 1g on the saturday and 1g on sunday… Then - start your cycle as planned on monday… The thing is - all your hormone levels will be up when you do your first workout of the cycle.

also - you do more cycles per year, and also - you are almost more time off than time on…
aaand - you dont get huge yo-yo effect on your size which happens when you take 3 months off after a 3 month cycle.
[/quote]

That is one massive front load haha, now what would your dose be on cycle 500mg e4d? An lets say with the front load you were referring to you would then shoot 500mg on that Monday correct?

[quote]BUDs wrote:
That is one massive front load haha, now what would your dose be on cycle 500mg e4d? An lets say with the front load you were referring to you would then shoot 500mg on that Monday correct?
[/quote]

front loads usually are 1,5-2 times the dosage you would do on cycle. you can front load on short esters too - cause there are no esters that will kick in right after the injection, and since we are doing 4-5 week cycles, we cant really afford to wait and waste our time.
so, if i would do a 100mg prop a day, id probably do a front load of 1g the day before the cycle… if i do long esters, like sust, i would just front load for 2-3 days before the cycle, so - if i plan on pinning 500mg of sust e4d on cycle, i would do 1g of sust on a day before the cycle, and on the day before that, so - if you do 500mg sust Monday-Friday-etc, i suggest a front load of 1g on saturday and sunday, and then do your 500mg on Monday as planned.
It is a big dosage, but if you are not 60 years old with a heart condition, you shouldnt really notice any difference.

It is really important if you want to run a short cycles. You cant afford to waste any time - you need your blood and hormone levels up on day one, because - on a 4 week cycle you have only 4 workouts for each muscle group so its not very smart to waste first week because your sust or cyp takes longer to get all the levels up.

So, you can do all kinds of esters on a shorty - you just need to adapt the front load… I wouldnt do deca and stuff like that thou, because it takes years to clear out, so it kinda loses all the sence of a short cycle.
On a shorty, you do high dosage, hit the receptors hard, gain as much as you can as fast as you can, and get the hell out before your body starts showing any sides or before your balls shrink like raisins and need 4 week PCT to recover.