http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-seattle-terror-plot,0,5736498.story
A Los Angeles man is one of two suspects accused in a plot to use machine guns and grenades in an attack on a military recruiting station in Seattle that also houses a daycare, the U.S. Justice Department said Thursday.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-seattle-terror-plot,0,5736498.story
A Los Angeles man is one of two suspects accused in a plot to use machine guns and grenades in an attack on a military recruiting station in Seattle that also houses a daycare, the U.S. Justice Department said Thursday.[/quote]
Abdul-Latif & Walli Mujahidh…but let’s not discuss their faith, because it would be wrong.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-seattle-terror-plot,0,5736498.story
A Los Angeles man is one of two suspects accused in a plot to use machine guns and grenades in an attack on a military recruiting station in Seattle that also houses a daycare, the U.S. Justice Department said Thursday.[/quote]
Abdul-Latif & Walli Mujahidh…but let’s not discuss their faith, because it would be wrong.[/quote]
No, it wouldn’t.
It would be wrong to say “look, all Muslims are terrorists.” Not wrong in the moralistic, PC way–wrong in the “not correct” kind of way.
By the way, fuck these two guys and everyone they’re involved with. I hope they find prison exceedingly unpleasant.
Terror, schmerror.
It would be nice if everyone despised the terrorists in Washington DC just as much.
You notice how people get all freaked at the mention of certain words?
eeek, a mouse!
Just imagine if they pulled this off.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Just imagine if they pulled this off.[/quote]
Ooo, yes, just imagine it…scary!
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-seattle-terror-plot,0,5736498.story
A Los Angeles man is one of two suspects accused in a plot to use machine guns and grenades in an attack on a military recruiting station in Seattle that also houses a daycare, the U.S. Justice Department said Thursday.[/quote]
Abdul-Latif & Walli Mujahidh…but let’s not discuss their faith, because it would be wrong.[/quote]
No, it wouldn’t.
It would be wrong to say “look, all Muslims are terrorists.” Not wrong in the moralistic, PC way–wrong in the “not correct” kind of way.[/quote]
Saying Islam is bad and saying all Muslims are terrorists are 2 different things.
If Islam leads only 1% of it’s people to try to carry off or support terror attacks, it can make it justified to say that the religion is bad. It does not take majority or even a large percentage to make something bad.
If one Christian in a thousand killed a thousand non-believers, Christianity would be bad. Even though the number of bad Christians would only be .1%.
If I were to put a tiny cyanide capsule in an apple, would you argue that the vast majority of the apple is still okay to eat, or would you throw away the whole apple?
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-seattle-terror-plot,0,5736498.story
A Los Angeles man is one of two suspects accused in a plot to use machine guns and grenades in an attack on a military recruiting station in Seattle that also houses a daycare, the U.S. Justice Department said Thursday.[/quote]
Abdul-Latif & Walli Mujahidh…but let’s not discuss their faith, because it would be wrong.[/quote]
No, it wouldn’t.
It would be wrong to say “look, all Muslims are terrorists.” Not wrong in the moralistic, PC way–wrong in the “not correct” kind of way.[/quote]
But it would be accurate to say these men attempted violence because of their religion.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-seattle-terror-plot,0,5736498.story
A Los Angeles man is one of two suspects accused in a plot to use machine guns and grenades in an attack on a military recruiting station in Seattle that also houses a daycare, the U.S. Justice Department said Thursday.[/quote]
Abdul-Latif & Walli Mujahidh…but let’s not discuss their faith, because it would be wrong.[/quote]
No, it wouldn’t.
It would be wrong to say “look, all Muslims are terrorists.” Not wrong in the moralistic, PC way–wrong in the “not correct” kind of way.[/quote]
Saying Islam is bad and saying all Muslims are terrorists are 2 different things.
If Islam leads only 1% of it’s people to try to carry off or support terror attacks, it can make it justified to say that the religion is bad. It does not take majority or even a large percentage to make something bad.
If one Christian in a thousand killed a thousand non-believers, Christianity would be bad. Even though the number of bad Christians would only be .1%.
[/quote]
Religion provides a platform from which the iniquitous can do harm. So does government, race, gender, wealth, and just about everything else. It isn’t as simple as you people like to make believe.
Islam has driven men to kill. So has Christianity. So has Buddhism. So have sex, love, boredom, greed, ethnocentrism, stupidity. Your numbers and percentages are arbitrary and therefore meaningless. What exactly is the point? If bad people are Muslims then to be Muslim is to be a bad person? Exactly how many bad guys taint the religion to a sufficient extent as to render it “bad”–ten percent? Eight? A single one? And as long as a single Muslim terrorist exists, is Islam truly and universally bad? And if this is so, are not all religions truly and universally bad? And do you believe that Islam cannot, depending upon the bent of the interpreter, engender anything other than hatred violent rebellion? Has Christianity not, on occasion, done just that as well?
It’s all just nonsense, a spurious caricature of reality created to ease the head-splitting complexity of real life.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-seattle-terror-plot,0,5736498.story
A Los Angeles man is one of two suspects accused in a plot to use machine guns and grenades in an attack on a military recruiting station in Seattle that also houses a daycare, the U.S. Justice Department said Thursday.[/quote]
Abdul-Latif & Walli Mujahidh…but let’s not discuss their faith, because it would be wrong.[/quote]
No, it wouldn’t.
It would be wrong to say “look, all Muslims are terrorists.” Not wrong in the moralistic, PC way–wrong in the “not correct” kind of way.[/quote]
But it would be accurate to say these men attempted violence because of their religion.[/quote]
Agreed.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-seattle-terror-plot,0,5736498.story
A Los Angeles man is one of two suspects accused in a plot to use machine guns and grenades in an attack on a military recruiting station in Seattle that also houses a daycare, the U.S. Justice Department said Thursday.[/quote]
Abdul-Latif & Walli Mujahidh…but let’s not discuss their faith, because it would be wrong.[/quote]
No, it wouldn’t.
It would be wrong to say “look, all Muslims are terrorists.” Not wrong in the moralistic, PC way–wrong in the “not correct” kind of way.[/quote]
Saying Islam is bad and saying all Muslims are terrorists are 2 different things.
If Islam leads only 1% of it’s people to try to carry off or support terror attacks, it can make it justified to say that the religion is bad. It does not take majority or even a large percentage to make something bad.
If one Christian in a thousand killed a thousand non-believers, Christianity would be bad. Even though the number of bad Christians would only be .1%.
[/quote]
Religion provides a platform from which the iniquitous can do harm. So does government, race, gender, wealth, and just about everything else. It isn’t as simple as you people like to make believe.
Islam has driven men to kill. So has Christianity. So has Buddhism. So have sex, love, boredom, greed, ethnocentrism, stupidity. Your numbers and percentages are arbitrary and therefore meaningless. What exactly is the point? If bad people are Muslims then to be Muslim is to be a bad person? Exactly how many bad guys taint the religion to a sufficient extent as to render it “bad”–ten percent? Eight? A single one? And as long as a single Muslim terrorist exists, is Islam truly and universally bad? And if this is so, are not all religions truly and universally bad? And do you believe that Islam cannot, depending upon the bent of the interpreter, engender anything other than hatred violent rebellion? Has Christianity not, on occasion, done just that as well?
It’s all just nonsense, a spurious caricature of reality created to ease the head-splitting complexity of real life.[/quote]
I never said it was simple. I only noted your assumptions in your first post were wrong.
“If bad people are Muslims then to be Muslim is to be a bad person?” - another poorly reasoned sentence.
If you are going to disagree with the argument at hand, then do it. The majority of Muslims being good doesn’t hold water. It does not show that Islam is good.
Notice I never argued one way or another about any religion being bad. I was only attempting to direct you to the actual argument.
What percent of people are bad to make a religion bad is very subjective. But when I see a pattern of violence and despicable murder largely correlated to one specific religion it makes me wonder.
Christians and Buddhists don’t follow that trend.
I personally am a little split on how I feel about Islam. Part of me sees it as much a problem with the middle ages culture of the middle east as with the religion itself.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I personally am a little split on how I feel about Islam. Part of me sees it as much a problem with the middle ages culture of the middle east as with the religion itself.[/quote]
This, I think, is the key. Medieval Christianity was often brutal, oppressive, and soaked in blood. Holy wars, Inquisitions…fourteen Jewish corpses were just discovered in the bottom of a Medieval well in England. Many Muslims live today in a region of the world that, for a great number of reasons, bears certain striking resemblances to that particular era in Western history.
My point is not that Islam is good. In fact I suspect the exact opposite. But, I don’t think that a man’s religion in itself makes him any more suspect, or dangerous, or worthy of discrimination, than any other man. This is especially true, I believe, of American Muslims: they, unlike their Asian counterparts, live in an industrialized Western democracy, and many of them are good people.
Which brings me to my original point: “It would be wrong to say ‘look, all Muslims are terrorists.’ Not wrong in the moralistic, PC way–wrong in the ‘not correct’ kind of way.”
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I personally am a little split on how I feel about Islam. Part of me sees it as much a problem with the middle ages culture of the middle east as with the religion itself.[/quote]
This, I think, is the key. Medieval Christianity was often brutal, oppressive, and soaked in blood. Holy wars, Inquisitions…fourteen Jewish corpses were just discovered in the bottom of a Medieval well in England. Many Muslims live today in a region of the world that, for a great number of reasons, bears certain striking resemblances to that particular era in Western history.
My point is not that Islam is good. In fact I suspect the exact opposite. But, I don’t think that a man’s religion in itself makes him any more suspect, or dangerous, or worthy of discrimination, than any other man. This is especially true, I believe, of American Muslims: they, unlike their Asian counterparts, live in an industrialized Western democracy, and many of them are good people.
Which brings me to my original point: “It would be wrong to say ‘look, all Muslims are terrorists.’ Not wrong in the moralistic, PC way–wrong in the ‘not correct’ kind of way.”[/quote]
Which no one ever claimed.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I personally am a little split on how I feel about Islam. Part of me sees it as much a problem with the middle ages culture of the middle east as with the religion itself.[/quote]
This, I think, is the key. Medieval Christianity was often brutal, oppressive, and soaked in blood. Holy wars, Inquisitions…fourteen Jewish corpses were just discovered in the bottom of a Medieval well in England. Many Muslims live today in a region of the world that, for a great number of reasons, bears certain striking resemblances to that particular era in Western history.
My point is not that Islam is good. In fact I suspect the exact opposite. But, I don’t think that a man’s religion in itself makes him any more suspect, or dangerous, or worthy of discrimination, than any other man. This is especially true, I believe, of American Muslims: they, unlike their Asian counterparts, live in an industrialized Western democracy, and many of them are good people.
Which brings me to my original point: “It would be wrong to say ‘look, all Muslims are terrorists.’ Not wrong in the moralistic, PC way–wrong in the ‘not correct’ kind of way.”[/quote]
Which no one ever claimed.
[/quote]
Many, many people on these boards either explicitly claim or imply exactly as much.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Many, many people on these boards either explicitly claim or imply exactly as much.[/quote]
“Abdul-Latif & Walli Mujahidh…but let’s not discuss their faith, because it would be wrong.”
This is what you responded to. This in no way did that.
“If I were to put a tiny cyanide capsule in an apple, would you argue that the vast majority of the apple is still okay to eat, or would you throw away the whole apple?” This statement of yours implies EXACTLY what you just said no one ever claimed.
I don’t care if it’s your belief or if you’re simply playing devil’s advocate or illustrating a point for the fuck of it. The argument is there. And though you seem not to actually subscribe to it, there are people around here who do.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Many, many people on these boards either explicitly claim or imply exactly as much.[/quote]
“Abdul-Latif & Walli Mujahidh…but let’s not discuss their faith, because it would be wrong.”
This is what you responded to. This in no way did that.[/quote]
He said something, I said something. It wasn’t an attack on him, it simply built on the theme that he brought up. I don’t have to wait for something to explicitly refute in order to make a statement on these boards.