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Hey guys,

I've been a reader in this forums for a long time, finally I decided to reach out for the wisdom which is avalaible in here.

My story:

I'm 21 year old guy from western europe who is currently enrolled in university... I had a pretty normal childhood , i had a lot of friends and was actually quite a normal kid...

Slowly over the next few years everything changed. My friends started to grow, they became man. I didn't. Two years from graduating highschool I was still trapped in a kids body... I was the smallest and weakest in my year, and had the voice of a girl. I didn't care that much at that time, because I felt that i was intellectually years ahead off all the other people in my year. That might have been true, but also was a my way to compensate my lack of manliness. Words were my thing, not fights...

All the other guys had girlfriends, they were experiencing the puberty and youth to their fullest. I played computer game and occasionally drank to get away from the little misery i was back than.
I graduated and I always knew, that in the back of my head something wasn't right with my body... I picked up a referal from my GP and wanted to go to an urologist, but i got the offer to work in a social project in another country far from home. I put the paper in the trash and away i went.

For one full year I was away from my home and the medical care I really needed wasn't avalaible to me. I was already aware that my hormones were the problem. Especially Testosteron. I did online searches and educated myself a bit more.
When i returned i had built up enough self esteem to fight this thing head on.

And now here I am with 21 after two years of HRT and the diagnose of primary hypogonadism. I went through the full puberty stuff in less than a year, had my first girlfriend etc, but I'll have to take HRT for the rest of my life.
I read the stickies and the stuff about E2. I'm really involved in my therapy. I changed my endocronolgist after my frist one didn't want to give me the lab data...

Now I am with a better one, who actually listens and shares all her concerns. Honest and intelligent.

Mainly in Europe there are three methods of HRT: Nebido, Test E and gels...

I know that the good approach would be self medicating testE eod with an AI to keep levels stable and avoid unnecessary side effects.

I don't have that option. I am not allowed to give injections to myself, because here in Germany it's really uncommon and you'd get in trouble with the doctors association.

After testing all three methods of HRT i finally decided to go with Nebido. It's one injection every 3 month and builds up in the body over time. I read a lot of reviews about it. It seems the best off the bad options I have. I hope it will provide me with more or less normal levels of testosteron and the rollercoaster won't be that hard to handle.

I have very little side effects on Nebido, with the exception of high E2 at the beginning of the 3 month time.

I know that a lot off you will tell me to fight for another therapy, but if you can't name me a doctor in Germany who does it like you guys are proposing I won't be able to move down another pass.

I have to work with what i have.

My problem: Here in Germany it is not common practise to give an AI to patients which are on HRT, even if you haven proven elevated (sky high) levels off E2. I have to handle this another way.

What can i do besides: (daily)

  • sport
  • reduce % off fat in my body
  • fish oil 4 capsules
  • zink 25mg
  • saw palm 300 mg
  • folic acid

I know it sounds strange, but what can i do... Arimidex is not available for me. Help me out guys :D. Be creative. I'm using iodized salt btw :wink:.


What are your labs with ranges?


My last blood was taken one day after my last TestE injection (4-25-2013). So this lab data won't help a lot. The lab data of my earlier doctor is just messed up and she didn't take all the data which is recommended in the stickies...

Soon I'm getting the data from my new one. That one will show the numbers after I stopped HRT for 2 month. That might help to come to some conclusions. It's my 4th day of Nebido right now. Doing good so far.

Any ideas how to "control" E2 without an AI? Still hoping for answers.


Indol 3 carbonal
Calcium d glucorate
Carciferous vegetables
Can help clear e2 from the liver this may not stop aromatase.

Stay away from soy.. Estrosmart is sold vitamin shops for females


Some lab data is better then non


Sounds good. Somebody got experience with DIM? Which is the best brand for it? How much do i need to take?


I would try the DIM and Calcium d-Glucarate. You could also try things to keep you liver going strong, and don't do things that will compromise liver function.


You can get anastrozole. It will not be from you doctor.

Note that competitive drug AI's need to match T levels. With a 3 month injection, T levels are high and AI dose will need to match that, then AI dose needs to drop as T levels drop.

Are you self injecting the T? If so, you can inject small amounts more often to get steady levels.


Hi Ksman,

thanks for writing in my thread.

I'm aware that the dose of the AI needs to match the rising/falling testo levels.I read the stickies and I know that my protocol is not optimal. In Germany it's not common pratice to self inject, so I'll not be able to do so unless I want to go completly rogue. The best I can get is Nebido and that will hopefully provide somehow stable levels.

I red a lot of reviews about it and some guys are doing quite okay on it. My doctor is open for shorter injection intervalls(shorter than 3 month), but splitting up the dose is not an option for her.

How can i get anastrazole, could you elaborate on that?



Research chems. I know some sites but I can't say them on the forum. Do some searching online


Now i started with DIM and Calcium D-Glucarate.
DIM brand is "Source Naturals". Maybe somebody uses it.

I'm going to take 100 mg with every meal. So 3 total tablets every day. Too much, too little?
What if my joints start to hurt is this a sign of low E2?

How long would you keep it up to get some results?

Somehow i get the feeling after 2 1/2 days that my libido went down somehow... Not sure though. I'll keep it going for a full week and a half and will reevaluate. Is there a way DIM could kill my libido? Is that even possible with such supplement? Or is Nebido not working properly?

SHBG wise, because even when i had high testosteron and free testoron my SHBG was only 27.5 in a range off 15-71.


I have never used the product, if something isn't doing you good, stop taking it.