T Nation

Screwed Up by Propecia Back in the Day Starting TRT


so im 5'7 170 about 14%bf(i can see my abs.kinda)43 yrs old.so i started losing my hair when i was 15.it was hell.got over it got into lifting the girls liked the muscles.had some girlfriend the junk worked great.then at age29 in 1996. i started using finstraide.used it for about a half yr.then do to cost started hammering the saw pamento.used that crap for a good yr.never put it together.but soon there after had problems getting wood.had some really bummer outings.started seeing a gal in 1997 who talked me in to going to a urolagist.he prescribed viagra.shit worked great.when i went for a visit in aug of 2006 at age 37.he suggest trt i thought what the hell.i had run some test through me a few times when i was younger.didnt really think it through.

so my blood work then was ft44 range was 250-300?thats what his nurse told me today.estrogen was 28 range was 0-56.after one vial of test cyp my readings were ft327 she didnt give me the estrogen reading.a bet they didnt bother testing for it.so at that point i was lifting hard was at about 185lbs strong(with or without the gas)and most importantly the viagra worked great so i just stopped the trt.so just reacently ive been having trouble getting wood(never have morning wood).my weights down to 170 but lean and muscular.and i just thought i dont train as hardcore anymore.so i went back to see the same dr.he says get back on the test.but didnt even want to run any blood.and nothing to control estrogen.i talked him in to doing blood work.but he says the test will take care of the estrogen.he said"the test will be like a snowplow clearing the estrogen"????so i got my test cyp and he said do a cc a week.i said should i do a half cc every few days.he says doesnt matter.

so heres my questions.any harm in me doing a few half cc bumps in the next week.while waiting for my bloodwork(ive got a hot gal that i had problem with coming over sat. would really like to redeam myself.there was a bit of a mind f-ck last time that didnt help)did a half cc yesterday..and also with out something for estrogen control.i will talk him into something for est. next week.i will tell him my nipples are burning.worked last time.also do you guys buy into the whole propecia f-cking your system up theory. i wont ramble like this again thanks



I like to discourage that. You will get a big bump in E2 as well, then you T drops back to where it was and your E:T is worse. And you can sort of accommodate to higher doses and not feel good with less.

Have you read the lab work stickies?

Doses are not ml's they are mg's. ml's are a vehicle to deliver the drug. Some T is 100mg/ml and some is 200/ml, so we do not know what your dose is.


Thanks for your reply.I've been reading your posts.and I see now I got a bit ahead of myself.I'm wondering if my problems don't have. More to do with estrogen.I'm guessing my bloodwork will come back low t.but I saw a dr.crysler talking about.trying to restart guys systems after propecia.with I think clomid.I put a freeze on my bloodwork to make sure there testing for the right stuff.should I have test for prolactin along with the basics.

I'm paying for everything out of pocket.so I'm starting to worry if I can aford it all.I'm guessing at 43. I'm to old to "re-start" my system.but I'm wondering about trying some clomid and liquid dex first.the trt itself I'm fine with.I just don't know if I can afford it.

looks like I would have ad hcg at some point.to keep my nuts from srinking up.plus this dr.I've got is a clown. I know I need the bloodwork to.know anything for sure.but I was thinking about just starting on some liquid dex.and just shelving the test at least tell I get my bloodwork back.


Just looked into clomid.I must have been wrong.that can't be what dr.crysler was using for "re-starting"the system.I guess dex might be allright.but not the clomid.might just have to get a phone consult with this dr.crysler


If you do a trial of clomid and your testes do not improve and T levels become useful, a restart is probably impossible. You could do hCG for a while first to take the testes to a longer point in recovery. If T is not decent then, no point in going forward. Then stop hCG, start clomid and see what then happens with testes that are already physically recovered. Clomid will test out the top end of your HPTA.

Testes should be larger and firmer with hCG, and hang better. Recovery takes time.

Clomid has big side effects for a few. In that regard, the SERM nolvadex is safer and effective.



very cool of you to help me out.I know enough.to know I'm coming across as clueless.my lab work will be in next wen.I will just hold tight tell than.if you lived next door.I would drop you off a case of beer. Thanks


If I could collect on those beer promises, I would be an alcoholic!

Post back here when you get the labs.


very cool of you to help me out.I know enough.to know I'm coming across as clueless.my lab work will be in next wen.I will just hold tight tell than.I orderd 2 bottles of liquid dex. Today.doest sound like that's my answer.should I see if I can stop that order?if I could give you a case of beer for help.I sure would .thank you very much


Canceld my order for liquid dex.didn't relize I posted a thankyou twice.when you have a dr.telling you the test.will act like a snowplow to clear away est.some real help is much appreciated.be back with labs


If you are in minesotta then you are probably with one of those body logic Drs that have no experience with TRT. Doing half a CC every few days that is not TRT but steroid cycle. Like Ksman said your going to have a huge fluctuation in e2 which may kiss that erectoin good bye !! You need to know what you are dealing with and what one action may cause a bad chain reaction.


I'm with a dr lunbland a urolagist in edina.I was going to go see somebody at bodylogic.because I would like to try and restart my system first.I'm guessing at 43 unlikley.but worth a try.and I'm doubting my urolagist would get the concept.he's the one that told me when I asked about something for est.control.that the test.would act like a snowplow to clear the estrogen away.wow.I don't knows how I will get my hands on the hcg.I though maybe the bodylogic people would get it.I get my bloodwork wen.I put everything on hold tell then.I tryed to cancel mt order for 2liquid dex.but they had allready shipped.I don't know if that stuff will fit in or not but I'm just going to wait.my guess is my bloodwork is going to be pretty wacky.I'm hoping the one half cc shot of test didn't cause anymore problems.I've seening talk of your nuts hanging.never really noticed or thought about it.tell I saw it on this form.

so I check mine.and they look like one of those hacky sack ball you kick around.there isn't any "hanging" going on.I'm guessing that isn't right.but my urolagist never even noticed when he checked me over.so I'm going to have to study up and do this on my own.all I want is my equipment working again.I'm fine with even having to use the pills.just s long as I can get them to work like they use to.this has been hell. Thanks for replying.I need all the help I can get


Most urologists and endo's are really stupid and don't know what to do and will not bother to think about it. They understand some of the nuts and bolts, but are incompetent. Most guys who come here and study what is offered end up understanding things way beyond most doctors.


I just wonder how many poor bastards he's screwed up.with the test.will clear est. Away like a snow plow clearing a street.and es presribing test.to anyone.I had to demand bloodwork before I started.so glad I did.and that I found this site.makes me feel like I got a shot at improving my problem.I think I have relalistic goals.just get better.I don't have to be 100%.that bloodwork is going to be interesting.


so I got my labs today.thought i would give my background on the same post.I was a muscular little kid.I boxed growing up.when I look at pics of me in the ring at age 12.I looked like a little bodybuilder.then at about age 14 I started loosing my hair(always wondered if i had to much test.at a young age?).at about age 28 I used propecia(i thought what a godsend)for about a yr. then because it was cheaper I used saw pamento for about a yr.soon there after I started having e.d issues.about a yr later i used 3vials of test.prop no pct.then a yr later I used 2vials of equipose.again no pct.then in 2006 my doctor put me on trt (kind of)I used 2vials test.cyp. then just stopped.again no pct.

Ive been using viagra sense 1998 with 100%success.latley not so good.heres my labs. (estradiol 23.3 20.0-56.o) (fsh8.6 0.70-11.1)(lh4.3 0.80-7.60) (shbg29.5 13.0-71.0) (free test50.7 250.0-300.0) (test256.0 300-1600) (albumin4.7 3.5-5.0) (free t3 3.4 1.5-4.1)(free t4 1.1 0.8-1.9) im muscular with not a whole lot of fat just some love handles.im 43 5'7 33waist 170lbs but my weight has dropped from 180 over the last few yrs.but i dont train near as heavy as i used to either.but if anything im leaner now?I have hair on chest forearms legs.I would say avg. amount.I dont remember any pain in the nuts.but my sack is up tight looks like a hackey sack ball.no hanging what so ever.training wise i just lift to stay fit and muscular.no over training.does this mess sound like a possible restart.or would that just be a waste of time and money.

thanks to everyone.some serious good karma on this site


here are my labs in 2006 before my urolagist put me on trt kind (estradiol20.5 nd-56)(shbg40.0 13-71)(free test44 250-300)(total test256 270-1734)after 2vials test cyp3mounth later(estradiol20 nd-56)(shbg24.3 13-71)(free test327 250-300)(total test1138 270-1734) I thought it was interesting that after 2vials of test my est.stayed the same?


Im not real skilled with the computer.doing my best.very desperate about my condition.could someone offer a little advice.either how to change my post or on my condition.thanks for any help


So I decided to go see a specialist about my problem.he decided to try a blast of triptorelin.to restart my hpta.that was last tues.I feel good seems like it might have worked.he wants me to wait 1month and get blood work.from what I've been seeing.if its going to work it would be by now.I'm thinking of getting my test level checked wens.8days after shot.does this make sense.the not knowing is killing me. Thanks


I just follow the sticky KSman posted above, those guidelines work pretty well to get you started right. Bloodwork will help you make small improvements from there.


Thankyou but I guess I don't understand.this was a single blast of triptorelin to get me restarted.the testosterone test is only 80.00 I'm just going to get the test wen.morning