T Nation

SCOTUS Affirmative Action Ruling


The Supreme Court handed down a surprisingly tentative decision on affirmative action Monday, saying universities may adopt admissions policies that consider a studentâ??s race only if they can show it is necessary to achieve diversity on campus.

The 7-1 decision, joined by both conservatives and liberals, tells a lower court to take another close look at the admissions policy at the University of Texas.


Here are my questions, how do you ...

a) Prove when diversity has been achieved ?

b) Prove how diversity improves the college experience ?

c) Justify the denial of admission to a student based to their race ?


No idea. I think a) is answerable by saying, we can consider diversity achieved when the statistical student admissions are representative of the populations as a whole (e.g. African americans make up 12% of the population, so 12% of college students admitted) anything over that and i believe we are now biasing rather than ensuring "fairness" or whatever that means.


There is little moral difference between separate requirements and separate schools. If you are for separate requirements, it puts you on a moral level with segregationists.

"Separate bur equal" is not "separate but Fair".


Your questions sound rhetorical.

At the very least - there is no rational, common sense answer to them.


While they sound rhetorical (and I agree with you), these questions are based in reality because of this ruling.

Someone will be denied entrance to a university based on nothing but race, how does that person rationalize that ?


My problem is about determining a standard from which to make that decision.

Let's use Aragorn's standard of a national racial average. If the black population is 12%, and the Hispanic population is 20%, and the white population is 60% (totally made up numbers for the sake of discussion), does that mean every single college in the US is exposed to a civil suit for failure to comply with the AA numbers?

How would that impact historically black schools like Grambling, or Prairie View A&M? Would they be exposed to civil litigation because they have more blacks than hispanics?

Or, what about schools like UT-El Paso? Easily 50% hispanic student population. Should they be forced into an AA program because of a lack of diversity?

Racial Diversity is progressive dog whistle for paying back the white man. It has nothing to do with diversity, education, or equal opportunity. It is racism and bigotry based on nothing but pure hatred and ignorance.


Sowell goes into this in Economic Facts and Fallacies .

What ends up happening is if a race is over-represented (he used Asian's as an example) it therefore becomes increasingly harder for Asian's to get into college. The requirements to enroll them become higher because of the people that got into the college in years past. If a college has 200 seats available, and Asians are already over represented, then they will only allow 10 seats to go to Asians. This means the competition for Asians will be higher than say for Whites who have 40 seats available to them... So on and so forth, until you get to the most underrepresented race at the college. They will actually be able to gain admission with test scores and evaluations far below those Asians that were denied.

This means people in underrepresented groups will get admitted when they never should have in the first place, because standards are lowered to meet a quota. Once these kids get in, they find out they aren't qualified and fail classes... They flunk out, the race continues to be underrepresented...

Clarence Thomas is correct.


Your statement was proven here, where our outgoing Mayor was admitted into UCLA with a 1.6 GPA due to AA.

Dude bankrupt the city and gave all public employees a 25% raise in the middle of a horrible recession. He justified this by believing the DOW would be over 20 million by the end of the century.


I could of used this is the females in SOF thread...


Were it possible to be locked in a room with Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, and Clarence Thomas just for the opportunity to listen to their words...


To your last paragraph, the dropout rate in community colleges here is around 65%. Remarkable how accurate your assessment is.


LOL! Because I'm just paraphrasing people much smarter than I am.


Its worse even, if a black kid cannot make it at MIT, he might have at a slightly less hard university.

These kids are not idiots, they are the creme of the crop and they could lift their whole community upwards just by existing.

These programms do not harm doofuses, they harm the very people who could make it big.


One of my good friends who happened to be the valedictorian in our high school class was deferred from Princeton because of an "Asian cap" (he's Indian).

That's been my only real experience with "affirmative action". What a great thing...


Indian's will further be FUBAR as this progresses. I know, at least at my school, they we very well represented.


Precisely. Sowell, drunkpig and beans are all correct. I do not like or agree with the practice.

The only reason I suggested what I did above was because it is ALREADY being done....has been for years in some form or other before the SCOTUS ruling. The least harmful way I think is basing the numbers off the national average. A case could be made for regional (local) averages as well, or a combination of regional/national. But it's BS just the same.

I was having a conversation on a related topic with a couple English lads I know who bartend at a local pub here. It was enlightening to say the least. There aren't many things I would rather change to adopt from our cousins, but two of them are a) fights generally stay "lawsuit" free or charge free unless somebody gets stabbed/glassed and b) with the exception of the muslim immigrants, most minorities (both race and sexual orientation) in their experience get the non-PC treatment because nobody gives a damn--which is the way true "equality" is supposed to be.

I'm fairly certain DD knows I am not a segregationist....I think....


I would bring a high fidelity voice recorder and lots of spare batteries. And a spike or 5 to stay up night and day.


Not to belittle CT, but it's sad that we live in a world where 'You can only have one first priority.' is profound.

Not rational to be discriminated against because of your race? As long as it's not solely your race, you're rationalizing with the wind, sail into it, change direction, or drown.

IMO, this bodes well for States' decision wrt Gay Marriage. We can only hope they strike down federal language and tell California to sort it's own shit out.


c) You don't which is the point of affirmative action.


I hate that they try to treat such a complex issue with such a simplistic, ignorant approach. To tell a college that they must have a certain ratio of students of various ethnicity is to pretend that there are no educational disparities between different races. Nobody should get more or less help because of the color of their skin/the country they are from.