T Nation

School Shootings

What the hell is going on?

I didn’t graduate from high school too long ago, but I remember Columbine and a bunch of other school shootings. Still the shootings in schools in the past weeks have made me glad I don’t have a kid (or even myself) in the public school system. This is fucking outrageous. As a country, we need to get our shit straight from within. Any ideas as to why a 15 year old with a whole life ahead of them would do something this bad?

We’ve all been made fun of in highschool. We’ve all had to deal with being impopular. Any idea as to why a 50 year old would go into a highschool, molest/rape a bunch of girls, and then kill himself and one of the girls? Makes me sick. I think we all need to be a little more proactive in bringing the smack-down on people like this. I guess this was just to vent, but man am I fucking mad.

I’ve been distressed at watching this crap on the news recently as well. It’s all over the place lately.

Something is wrong with our systems, our society, when people are taking guns into schools and killing people. I imagine we’ll just keep doing what we are doing and put in more security measures… treating the symptoms instead of the causes.

Or do we just do nothing, because the absolute numbers aren’t that threatening to society as a whole?

Agreed. I read the article and saw the pictures of that poor girl and that disgusting piece of shit that killed her…

Infuriating. I can only hope he’s receiving all the torments Hell has to offer as we speak…

Sick.

[quote]dead_lifter5000 wrote:
What the hell is going on?

I didn’t graduate from high school too long ago, but I remember Columbine and a bunch of other school shootings. Still the shootings in schools in the past weeks have made me glad I don’t have a kid (or even myself) in the public school system. This is fucking outrageous. As a country, we need to get our shit straight from within. Any ideas as to why a 15 year old with a whole life ahead of them would do something this bad?

We’ve all been made fun of in highschool. We’ve all had to deal with being impopular. Any idea as to why a 50 year old would go into a highschool, molest/rape a bunch of girls, and then kill himself and one of the girls? Makes me sick. I think we all need to be a little more proactive in bringing the smack-down on people like this. I guess this was just to vent, but man am I fucking mad.[/quote]

Some people are fucked up. That is it. Its not video games, bad parents, society. Its them.

No offense, but this sounds like a cop out. Its like saying “well, somepeople are just weak and small.” Washing your hands of the situation doesn’t make anything better- in fact, I believe part of the problem is the lack of hope our society has as a whole.

its BEYOND infuriating. a fuck up who is going to take his own life has to take down innocent ones with him? i dont know about their school, but six years ago when i was still in high school there was a supervisor at EVERY entrance to the school AND the doors did not open from the outside (it sucked for skipping long block and gettin some lunch).

Now the school has a buzzer system at every door with a camera on it, so you have to answer to the office before entering the building. obviously, this guy was able to walk right into the building.

[quote]dead_lifter5000 wrote:
Some people are fucked up. That is it. Its not video games, bad parents, society. Its them.

No offense, but this sounds like a cop out. Its like saying “well, somepeople are just weak and small.” Washing your hands of the situation doesn’t make anything better- in fact, I believe part of the problem is the lack of hope our society has as a whole. [/quote]

[quote]dead_lifter5000 wrote:
Some people are fucked up. That is it. Its not video games, bad parents, society. Its them.

No offense, but this sounds like a cop out. Its like saying “well, somepeople are just weak and small.” Washing your hands of the situation doesn’t make anything better- in fact, I believe part of the problem is the lack of hope our society has as a whole. [/quote]

I was saying it as a counter to the people trying to find a cause for someone else’s anti-social behaviour. Is it more of a cop-out than saying his parent’s abused him or ignored him? that he spent too much time playing violent video games and listening to death metal?

[quote]Ren wrote:
dead_lifter5000 wrote:
Some people are fucked up. That is it. Its not video games, bad parents, society. Its them.

No offense, but this sounds like a cop out. Its like saying “well, somepeople are just weak and small.” Washing your hands of the situation doesn’t make anything better- in fact, I believe part of the problem is the lack of hope our society has as a whole.

I was saying it as a counter to the people trying to find a cause for someone else’s anti-social behaviour. Is it more of a cop-out than saying his parent’s abused him or ignored him? that he spent too much time playing violent video games and listening to death metal?[/quote]

It all works together. It’s ultimately their own fault, plus the parents, plus society, plus video games, plus TV violence… It kills me when the parents of psycho-killers say “I had no idea they had all those guns”. How can a parent NOT know what their kids are doing?! Who the hell is in charge?

Like those two kids in Atlanta who tortured the puppy and cooked it live in an oven then bragged about it. How does a person get there? They weren’t insane, just sadistic and cruel. That is a product of parenting, friends, mass-media, and environment. Some people are f’d up, but something made them that way. Something influenced them in a very negative way. I believe we are born good, what happens afterward is a result of your environment/culture. Some cultures think nothing of extreme forms of torture and cruelty. It’s all about how you were raised. Just because he was a rich white kid who went to private schools doesn’t mean he had good parents.

[quote]vroom wrote:
I’ve been distressed at watching this crap on the news recently as well. It’s all over the place lately.

Something is wrong with our systems, our society, when people are taking guns into schools and killing people. I imagine we’ll just keep doing what we are doing and put in more security measures… treating the symptoms instead of the causes.

Or do we just do nothing, because the absolute numbers aren’t that threatening to society as a whole?[/quote]

What do we do? I blame it on bad parenting, not the WHOLE of society. You can’t raise your kids by placing them in front of the tv and ignoring what they are watching or playing on the X-Box or Playstation. Do we get rid of all “mature” video games? Why? Why can’t parents make sure their own kids don’t play mature video games instead? Why can’t parents raise their kids better?

If people can’t raise functional kids, quit having them.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
vroom wrote:
I’ve been distressed at watching this crap on the news recently as well. It’s all over the place lately.

Something is wrong with our systems, our society, when people are taking guns into schools and killing people. I imagine we’ll just keep doing what we are doing and put in more security measures… treating the symptoms instead of the causes.

Or do we just do nothing, because the absolute numbers aren’t that threatening to society as a whole?

What do we do? I blame it on bad parenting, not the WHOLE of society. You can’t raise your kids by placing them in front of the tv and ignoring what they are watching or playing on the X-Box or Playstation. Do we get rid of all “mature” video games? Why? Why can’t parents make sure their own kids don’t play mature video games instead? Why can’t parents raise their kids better?

If people can’t raise functional kids, quit having them.[/quote]

To some people, mo’ kids is mo’ money.

What they don’t realize is that:

  1. Mo’ kids is mo’ expenses.

  2. Mo’ kids is mo’ responsibility.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
What do we do? I blame it on bad parenting, not the WHOLE of society. You can’t raise your kids by placing them in front of the tv and ignoring what they are watching or playing on the X-Box or Playstation. Do we get rid of all “mature” video games? Why? Why can’t parents make sure their own kids don’t play mature video games instead? Why can’t parents raise their kids better?

If people can’t raise functional kids, quit having them.[/quote]

I don’t have any coherent thoughts on this, so forgive me if I just ramble around a bit…

It’s very difficult to fight the biological urge to have children and raise them. You’ll never have the government getting into who can have kids and how they must be raised.

At the same time, society is geared to encourage desires for things we can’t have. Expectations and demands for performance and conformity. So, we have double income parents opting for minimal wage caregiving, if any, and all kinds of other decisions which are strongly pushed by society.

I know, society is a fuzzy term, but the issue does encompass how we live, how we are raised, family units, working conditions (hours) and consumption patterns, and all that kind of stuff, perhaps.

Maybe we’ve defocused on some things that we shouldn’t have while we focused on others?

[quote]vroom wrote:
Professor X wrote:
What do we do? I blame it on bad parenting, not the WHOLE of society. You can’t raise your kids by placing them in front of the tv and ignoring what they are watching or playing on the X-Box or Playstation. Do we get rid of all “mature” video games? Why? Why can’t parents make sure their own kids don’t play mature video games instead? Why can’t parents raise their kids better?

If people can’t raise functional kids, quit having them.

I don’t have any coherent thoughts on this, so forgive me if I just ramble around a bit…

It’s very difficult to fight the biological urge to have children and raise them. You’ll never have the government getting into who can have kids and how they must be raised.

At the same time, society is geared to encourage desires for things we can’t have. Expectations and demands for performance and conformity. So, we have double income parents opting for minimal wage caregiving, if any, and all kinds of other decisions which are strongly pushed by society.

I know, society is a fuzzy term, but the issue does encompass how we live, how we are raised, family units, working conditions (hours) and consumption patterns, and all that kind of stuff, perhaps.

Maybe we’ve defocused on some things that we shouldn’t have while we focused on others?[/quote]

I have some coherent thoughts.

I personally think the problem is an epidemic of irresponsibility. Everyone wants to blame someone else for why they can’t control their kids, why their kids do drugs, why their kids grabbed the neighbor’s dog and cooked it in the backyard in a turkey fryer or why their kids went to school with a sawed off shot gun and killed the math teacher. It NEVER happens to be because the parents were fucking crazy and ignored their crazy fucking kids.

Where the FUCK does a kid get the idea to cook a pet in a microwave?

Why the FUCK would a kid be raised with such ill ability to adapt to pressure that they go to school and kill the cute girl who said “go out with YOU?!..are you fucking kidding?”

Life wasn’t exactly all roses when we were growing up. In the 6th grade, I wore glasses bigger than hub caps on a 1971 Cadillac and I still didn’t shoot anybody over the jokes. I could have blamed it on Scarface.

Things are fucked up because the same parents who have 3 kids that they can’t afford now have to take care of those damn kids and use Cable tv and Playstation to act as babyitter while they try to pretend they don’t really have kids.

It isn’t because of GTA San Andreas. It’s because some dumb bitch let her brats at the age of 8 play GTA San Andreas and never taught them the difference between reality and make believe.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Life wasn’t exactly all roses when we were growing up. In the 6th grade, I wore glasses bigger than hub caps on a 1971 Cadillac and I still didn’t shoot anybody over the jokes. I could have blamed it on Scarface.

Things are fucked up because the same parents who have 3 kids that they can’t afford now have to take care of those damn kids and use Cable tv and Playstation to act as babyitter while they try to pretend they don’t really have kids.

It isn’t because of GTA San Andreas. It’s because some dumb bitch let her brats at the age of 8 play GTA San Andreas and never taught them the difference between reality and make believe.[/quote]

Building on what you’ve said…

Do parents these days even know what they have the responsibility to teach their children, or do they just assume the important things will be picked up somehow?

And yes, before people get upset, I realize there are excellent and responsible parents out there too.

It just seems that so many people imagine the next generation will develop similar ideals to their own without anyone having to put in the effort and discipline to instill those ideals.

Shit, maybe the government should mail all parents a little pamphlet containing “the golden rule” and samples on how to pass it on…

Does anybody else think the world is on a downward slide? 3rd school shooting in 2 weeks. So much war. So many polution problems. Economy falling to shit. Everybody’s fat. I don’t know, maybe it’s just me. It just seems like everything bad that could happen is happening right now and it’s just compounding. Sorry, this is just random pessimism.

Based on the AP article I just read on Yahoo, it seems like this was preventable. Preventable in the sense that adults with opportunity and the means did not have the will to stop the kid,

According to the article,

“Thompson [a teacher with two kids at the school himself] said the student first pointed a shotgun in a teacher’s face. Thompson grabbed away the gun, but the student then appeared to be reaching for another gun, so Thompson and the teacher took cover.”

Instead, they ran for cover and let the kid continue on to find the principal.

I live in Colorado where the two shooting happened. I can’t believe that no one did anything to stop him. How can a teacher leave and let him take hostage 6 kids. It digusting how he can just walk in there, saying he has a bomb grab 6 girls and sexually harass some of them and no one do anything. Did they not have male teachers around or sercurity gaurds?

I would like to have more information on the 15 year old before making a judgement on todays shooting. Here’s why, they say the kid was a special education student.

So there are questions I would like to have answered before passing judgement on this kid.

For example Is Wisconson a state that uses the bounty system of special education funding and if they do use the bounty system, was the kid put in there for a legitimate reason or was he put in there under one of the made up conditions that the schools use to collect the bounty.

The 15 year old had been suspended for having tobacco on school grounds and was facing the possibility of an in school suspension.

I remember back when I was his age, an in school suspension for a special ed student meant they would be solitarily confined in a wooden box about the size of a coffin for the entire school day.

I would like to know if they were going to subject him to this cruel and inhumane form of torture.

I see a great effort by the media to villify the kid while trying to glorify the principle and most people are buying into it.

However there might be another side to the story that involves an innocent child being used in an immorral manner by unscrupulous school administrators in order to collect the special ed bounty. I have certainly read enough to suspect that this may be the case.
In such a case I would have a hard time blaming the kid. Instead I would blame the school administrators who used and abused him.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
vroom wrote:
Professor X wrote:
What do we do? I blame it on bad parenting, not the WHOLE of society. You can’t raise your kids by placing them in front of the tv and ignoring what they are watching or playing on the X-Box or Playstation. Do we get rid of all “mature” video games? Why? Why can’t parents make sure their own kids don’t play mature video games instead? Why can’t parents raise their kids better?

If people can’t raise functional kids, quit having them.

I don’t have any coherent thoughts on this, so forgive me if I just ramble around a bit…

It’s very difficult to fight the biological urge to have children and raise them. You’ll never have the government getting into who can have kids and how they must be raised.

At the same time, society is geared to encourage desires for things we can’t have. Expectations and demands for performance and conformity. So, we have double income parents opting for minimal wage caregiving, if any, and all kinds of other decisions which are strongly pushed by society.

I know, society is a fuzzy term, but the issue does encompass how we live, how we are raised, family units, working conditions (hours) and consumption patterns, and all that kind of stuff, perhaps.

Maybe we’ve defocused on some things that we shouldn’t have while we focused on others?

I have some coherent thoughts.

I personally think the problem is an epidemic of irresponsibility. Everyone wants to blame someone else for why they can’t control their kids, why their kids do drugs, why their kids grabbed the neighbor’s dog and cooked it in the backyard in a turkey fryer or why their kids went to school with a sawed off shot gun and killed the math teacher. It NEVER happens to be because the parents were fucking crazy and ignored their crazy fucking kids.

Where the FUCK does a kid get the idea to cook a pet in a microwave?

Why the FUCK would a kid be raised with such ill ability to adapt to pressure that they go to school and kill the cute girl who said “go out with YOU?!..are you fucking kidding?”

Life wasn’t exactly all roses when we were growing up. In the 6th grade, I wore glasses bigger than hub caps on a 1971 Cadillac and I still didn’t shoot anybody over the jokes. I could have blamed it on Scarface.

Things are fucked up because the same parents who have 3 kids that they can’t afford now have to take care of those damn kids and use Cable tv and Playstation to act as babyitter while they try to pretend they don’t really have kids.

It isn’t because of GTA San Andreas. It’s because some dumb bitch let her brats at the age of 8 play GTA San Andreas and never taught them the difference between reality and make believe.[/quote]

its easy to say “blame the parents”, but it is often the case that troubled teens present “two forms” of themselves… ie they act in a certain manner infront of their families/parents, but are different when alone or at school.

Thus, in these cases, the parents can’t really do much since they don’t know how troubled their kid is. There are recent examples of acts of unspeakable violence committed by teens parented by caring and loving parents… just can’t remember the specific names at the moment lol.

[quote]IRoNStaLLion wrote:
It isn’t because of GTA San Andreas. It’s because some dumb bitch let her brats at the age of 8 play GTA San Andreas and never taught them the difference between reality and make believe.

its easy to say “blame the parents”, but it is often the case that troubled teens present “two forms” of themselves… ie they act in a certain manner infront of their families/parents, but are different when alone or at school.

Thus, in these cases, the parents can’t really do much since they don’t know how troubled their kid is. There are recent examples of acts of unspeakable violence committed by teens parented by caring and loving parents… just can’t remember the specific names at the moment lol.[/quote]

I truly don’t believe there are many cases outside of clear psychosis where I child is raised by loving parents with values and strong morals who starts killing neighborhood animals in secret for no reason. While I do believe “evil” exists, I also believe that when it comes to what makes a person who they are, their environment plays the greatest role.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Ren wrote:
I believe we are born good, what happens afterward is a result of your environment/culture.

[/quote]

This is an ideal that is common to many people and derives from philosophy that is centuries old. Unfortunately, it is simply not true. Science and research on every culture and population around the world has shown otherwise.