Scar Tissue Build Up

Pharma / TRT
21

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
Brook wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
Anyone ever have any issues with injecting dorsogluteal and ventrogluteal within a day of each other because of proximity?

There is absolutely no time you would ever need to - so no, because i don’t.

I would simply rotate my injections logically… so there would be a site or two sites inbetween those two sites.

But if it was ABSOLUTELY necessary (simply because you do not possess legs or an upper body - you are just hips, arse and a head - all connected with a wire and plugged into the wall socket) then you would inject LHS glute, RHS glute, LHS VG, RHS VG - this alone would give you two days (or one FULL day depending if you count in a strange way) between the shots that are close together.

Either way - just shoot your delts, biceps, quads, traps or lats inbetween. (I left out tricep as it is a horrible site)

JJ

The question was out of curiosity, not necessity. Given that the dorsogluteal injection is depositing the bolus into the gluteus maximus, and ventrogluteal → gluteus medius, it seemed likely that shooting both those sites within a close time frame would not lead to any higher incidence of scar tissue build up (similar to Bill’s usage of multiple sites along the vastus lateralis).

Assuming there’s no increased risk of scar tissue buildup, and assuming it doesn’t produce extreme discomfort (save for those whose preparations are painful regardless), I’m not sure why shooting these two sites sequentially would be “illogical”, even if it isn’t necessary.

But that’s a lot of assumptions, and thus the question…

Sorry, I should have specified that I do not shoot them within one day of each other, but often do shoot those sites within two days of each other (RVG, LVG, RDG, LDG). As Brook says above, I cannot see any reason why a person would need to shoot them within a single day of each other. I sometimes shoot within two days just because I know my body and how it handles injections well enough at this point that I can feel when I am “ready” to receive one. Occasionally I do not feel ready and I will opt for a different site that day. [/quote]

Thanks Cortes. This is actually what I am really interested in, not necessarily whether they can be shot on consecutive days (which is unnecessary), but rather whether they need the normal “cooling off period” one typically needs for a single site. For me that’s about 4 days. It’s purely out of curiosity, not necessity, as for my next cycle I’m looking at a rotation where I shoot 2ml of long ester compounds E3D into RVG, LVG, RDG, LDG, and 0.5ml of short ester compounds ED rotating between quads, delts and bis.

I’ve never used the VG sites before, so adding those two sites is going to make things a lot more convenient for me.

22

[quote]Moriarty wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
deafwoody wrote:
Not to hijack the thread but I injected pretty much quads only untill this cycle.I now rotate quads,glutes,VG and delts.Only problem is I don’t think I started the rotation quick enough and I have scar tissue built up in the quads.Really hard to inject.I’m almost worried about breaking the syringe I have to push the plunger so hard…lol

Anyways I’ve taken the quads out of the rotation but I am wondering if by next cycle(3 or 4 months)if the scar tissue will soften up allowing for easier injections or if I’m basically stuck with this permantly?

Also if there is a way to get rid of the scar tissue let me know.Even if it’s painfull.One thing I have realized is pain for the most part is temporary so if it’s for a good cause u can find ways to deal with it.

Thanks

Here’s my similar experience

My first cycle I was doing 2 shots per week. I wasn’t a fan of D glute early on because I wasn’t good with controlling the needle and it bent the first two times I attempted it. So After the first week I stuck with quads only. I eventually built up a bit of scar tissue. Nothing to the point where I wasn’t able to complete an injection, but there was some resistance that wasn’t there in the beginning. The next time I used a long ester I rotated D glute and V glute, skipped quads completely. Then, some time later, I went back to quad shots and didn’t notice resistance. So my experience is that minimal scar tissue build up may go away on its own after some time.

Similar experience here. On one of my first cycles I noticed increased injection resistance (but not to the point that I couldn’t complete an injection) in a site due to what I believe was scar tissue. Went away without any active treatment.[/quote]

If you think about the actual amount of ‘scar tissue’ (which is a term that is being blown up in this thread now) from one injection… then you realise alone it is so negligible it is of absolutely no importance to anything - ever.

So add up the 5-40 injections of a first cycle and consider - is there enough to cause ‘resistance’?

I have injected hundreds of times IM, over 500 i would guess - and i have not experienced ‘injection resistance’ yet.

I think too many people look into things far too much. You have to be able to ‘let go’ just a little or you will drive yourself mad.

It isn’t a smooth and silky substance you push the needle through, sometimes it will pop, crack, twitch and hurt… it doesn’t MEAN much, just that you are pushing through small tissues.

I am as much a fan of education and knowledge as anyone - shit, i spend a lot of time studying off my own steam under my own curriculum as i cannot afford a degree yet! But i do also think that some of you just worry too damn much.

23

I don’t know, Brook. After three cycles of ED injections (one of them a longer run, one of them, this one, a very long run), I certainly do notice something happening in both VG injection sites, not surprisingly the sites I have used more than any other up to this point.

Typically now, before I inject VG, I have to really push around at the tissue there, searching for the softer spot to shoot into. Once I am in, even this morning this happened to me, I experience the “resistance” discussed above. However, that “resistance” is very real, and is such that I literally cannot push the plunger down on the syringe. Other times it will move, but I am pushing so hard I am honestly afraid the wings are going to break off the thing.

Presently, I can push a little deeper, pull out a little more, or move a little over, but I am seriously running out of room on my VG site. If things go on as they are, there will come a day when the damn shot just will not go in.

I am happy you have not experienced this up to this point, really I am, but it certainly does exist and does become a problem for some of us after a while.

24

[quote] Brook wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
deafwoody wrote:
Not to hijack the thread but I injected pretty much quads only untill this cycle.I now rotate quads,glutes,VG and delts.Only problem is I don’t think I started the rotation quick enough and I have scar tissue built up in the quads.Really hard to inject.I’m almost worried about breaking the syringe I have to push the plunger so hard…lol

Anyways I’ve taken the quads out of the rotation but I am wondering if by next cycle(3 or 4 months)if the scar tissue will soften up allowing for easier injections or if I’m basically stuck with this permantly?

Also if there is a way to get rid of the scar tissue let me know.Even if it’s painfull.One thing I have realized is pain for the most part is temporary so if it’s for a good cause u can find ways to deal with it.

Thanks

Here’s my similar experience

My first cycle I was doing 2 shots per week. I wasn’t a fan of D glute early on because I wasn’t good with controlling the needle and it bent the first two times I attempted it. So After the first week I stuck with quads only. I eventually built up a bit of scar tissue. Nothing to the point where I wasn’t able to complete an injection, but there was some resistance that wasn’t there in the beginning. The next time I used a long ester I rotated D glute and V glute, skipped quads completely. Then, some time later, I went back to quad shots and didn’t notice resistance. So my experience is that minimal scar tissue build up may go away on its own after some time.

Similar experience here. On one of my first cycles I noticed increased injection resistance (but not to the point that I couldn’t complete an injection) in a site due to what I believe was scar tissue. Went away without any active treatment.

If you think about the actual amount of ‘scar tissue’ (which is a term that is being blown up in this thread now) from one injection… then you realise alone it is so negligible it is of absolutely no importance to anything - ever.

So add up the 5-40 injections of a first cycle and consider - is there enough to cause ‘resistance’?

I have injected hundreds of times IM, over 500 i would guess - and i have not experienced ‘injection resistance’ yet.

I think too many people look into things far too much. You have to be able to ‘let go’ just a little or you will drive yourself mad.

It isn’t a smooth and silky substance you push the needle through, sometimes it will pop, crack, twitch and hurt… it doesn’t MEAN much, just that you are pushing through small tissues.

I am as much a fan of education and knowledge as anyone - shit, i spend a lot of time studying off my own steam under my own curriculum as i cannot afford a degree yet! But i do also think that some of you just worry too damn much.[/quote]

I definitely agree with you to an extent Brook. I’ve been shooting 25G pins for years and I do think the issue of “scar tissue” is overblown a bit, unless you’re using 21G/23G and/or abusing sites, or just running very long cycles. The vast majority of users running moderate levels of standard compounds have no reason to worry about scar tissue with 25G pins, as long as they’re utilizing the most basic of rotation protocols.

However, there are too many people with Cortes’ experience to discount the issue altogether. It happened to me on my 2nd cycle, before I was even aware of the “scar tissue” issue, so I certainly wasn’t looking out for it. It’s quite noticeable, above the typical resistance due to viscosity of oil. It’s a resistance that I could feel not only while injecting, but when inserting the pin as well. The tissue literally felt “tougher”.

Can’t say that I really know what was going on there, but “scar tissue”, or some other reaction of the muscle to the injections, definitely fits with what I was feeling. Only happened when I was abusing a site and using a harsh preparation. Never happened again with the most basic of site rotations. But I don’t typically run very long cycles.

26

[quote]Cortes wrote:
I don’t know, Brook. After three cycles of ED injections (one of them a longer run, one of them, this one, a very long run), I certainly do notice something happening in both VG injection sites, not surprisingly the sites I have used more than any other up to this point.

Typically now, before I inject VG, I have to really push around at the tissue there, searching for the softer spot to shoot into. Once I am in, even this morning this happened to me, I experience the “resistance” discussed above. However, that “resistance” is very real, and is such that I literally cannot push the plunger down on the syringe. Other times it will move, but I am pushing so hard I am honestly afraid the wings are going to break off the thing.

Presently, I can push a little deeper, pull out a little more, or move a little over, but I am seriously running out of room on my VG site. If things go on as they are, there will come a day when the damn shot just will not go in.

I am happy you have not experienced this up to this point, really I am, but it certainly does exist and does become a problem for some of us after a while. [/quote]

In a very unfair and discriminatory way i am much more likely to listen to this from you than most.

Hmmph… well in that case, all i can say is in all my time it has never happened to me - well i push through shit but i just go in man… i would be interested to hear from someone who has used for nearer 10-20 years rather than us ‘newbs’ or from someone like prisoner who does injections as part of his workday…

However it should be noted i am not saying there is no resistance, that i find it hard to believe that just a few injections can cause enough scar tissue to build up that will cause injection issues to the extent you cannot even push the liquid from the barrel! Nahhh man…

:slight_smile:

27

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Lets not forget that some people have a genetic predisposition to collagen tissue accumulation (scar tissue buildup) and if you couple this with some pro-collagen stimulating gear, then I don’t think that one persons’ experience should set a benchmark for every one else.

BBB[/quote]

Very true - as is the case for everything really.

What do you know about the damage incurred from injecting and the inability to press the plunger? Could it be scar tissue?

29

It seems unlikely that something would be strong enough to prevent injection with a typical syringe.
You can generate very very high PSI with even a 23g.

I very much doubt muscle or scar tissue could do much to resist the oil/water with the kinds of pressure possible. But it might not be possible to actually apply the pressure without breaking the syringe off in your ass.

What size needles are you shooting with that cause these situations where you literally can not push the plunger down ??

A larger needle might help, certainly its easier to inject with a 21 than a 25, even though the pressue generated by a 25 is higher, a larger needle equals less pressure needed on your part, and could make it more possible to actually push the plunger in.

30

I agree with that thought Westclock.

As for what i use (as someone it doesn’t happen to) i inject oils with either 25g or 23g, depending on muscle size. (Lower-body or upper-body generally speaking).

I just cannot imagine tissue being able to stop it, the only time i can think is if the tip is pressing against an intramuscular fascia but not penetrating it… even then i would expect the bolus to form around the tip of the needle and on the needle side of the fascia.

Or BBB are you suggesting that much of the area a depot resides becomes filled with scar tissue after an injection? This would easily result in a fast build up of tough fibrous tissue (although with muscle and an injury of this size the repair process would result in replacement of the damaged muscle with new muscle tissue (albeit possibly less functional) rather than mere ‘filling of the hole’ as with the smaller trauma that the actual needle itself would cause.

That is assuming that a needle sized trauma is considered small enough for that - i am not certain actually.

31

I use a 23g 1.25 inch for all injections.

Sorry guys, but, unlikely as it may sound, the plunger won’t move when I put it into certain slowly hardening areas of my VG. I’m not exactly a complete newb to this, either, I think I know what I’m talking about when it comes to my body.

My very first injection ever was VG, and I can tell you unequivocally that there has been a gradual and definite build-up of harder tissue there (or a change to harder tissue), and sometimes I hit a spot and the plunger will not move. I’m not dicking around when I try depressing that plunger, either. The only reason I stop is because I am honestly afraid that the wings are going to break off, and if they do, with the amount of pressure I am applying, I am going to do something harmful and ugly to myself.

I’m not picking a fight with you guys at all, just to be clear (because over the internet one’s tone sometimes gets misinterpreted), but this reminds me of World a while back stating that he firmly believed there was no such thing as “tren cough.” Then I got it, and boy did I ever get it. After having experienced it firsthand, nobody is going to make me believe that it doesn’t exist and it isn’t just what others describe it as.

(Unrelated: What are the “wings” of a syringe correctly called? I just tried looking it up and cannot find anything to describe that particular part of a syringe.)

32

[quote] Brook wrote:

Or BBB are you suggesting that much of the area a depot resides becomes filled with scar tissue after an injection? This would easily result in a fast build up of tough fibrous tissue (although with muscle and an injury of this size the repair process would result in replacement of the damaged muscle with new muscle tissue (albeit possibly less functional) rather than mere ‘filling of the hole’ as with the smaller trauma that the actual needle itself would cause.[/quote]

Skeletal muscle tissue can only be regenerated a finite number of times by satellite cells. After this number is exceeded, you can only get scar tissue. Maybe this is whats happening?

33

[quote]Cortes wrote:
I use a 23g 1.25 inch for all injections.

Sorry guys, but, unlikely as it may sound, the plunger won’t move when I put it into certain slowly hardening areas of my VG. I’m not exactly a complete newb to this, either, I think I know what I’m talking about when it comes to my body.

My very first injection ever was VG, and I can tell you unequivocally that there has been a gradual and definite build-up of harder tissue there (or a change to harder tissue), and sometimes I hit a spot and the plunger will not move. I’m not dicking around when I try depressing that plunger, either. The only reason I stop is because I am honestly afraid that the wings are going to break off, and if they do, with the amount of pressure I am applying, I am going to do something harmful and ugly to myself.

I’m not picking a fight with you guys at all, just to be clear (because over the internet one’s tone sometimes gets misinterpreted), but this reminds me of World a while back stating that he firmly believed there was no such thing as “tren cough.” Then I got it, and boy did I ever get it. After having experienced it firsthand, nobody is going to make me believe that it doesn’t exist and it isn’t just what others describe it as.

(Unrelated: What are the “wings” of a syringe correctly called? I just tried looking it up and cannot find anything to describe that particular part of a syringe.)[/quote]

We fully believe that something is happening thats making injections oddly difficult, we just cant imagine muscle tissue could do so to that extent. It must be something else, as Bushy suggested.

The syringe must be blocked up some how by flesh, it seems impossible that something the consistency of a steak could withstand the pressure the syringe could create by simply pushing back on the liquid “bubble, abcess, etc” that your injecting.

I was thinking mabey if you were shooting with a 25 or something it might explain it.

But I use 23s and its a big needle, very quick inject.

I believe its our tone that is being misinterpreted, were simply pondering in wonderment and hypothesis, were not questioning you in the slightest, simply WHY it might be happening.

This topic is somewhat of a major concern for me, I really only shoot delts, quads, and glutes, and although my glutes are hard to reach, I have no pain even with 2ml injections and higher even.

If I cant use my glutes, large injections will become very tedious and problamatic.

34

x2 - no fight here.

Just debate and conversation :slight_smile:

35

Jus tthought scar tissue was the words we were using to describe this.

I have no idea what it is but the fact that when I put the needle in it goes in slower(ie needs more force) and I can def notice the area does seem to be harder.When I try to push the plunger it just won’t move.Man I am pressing so hard I am worried about breaking the syringe.When I finally push hard enough to get it to shoot it def does feel alot different then the other sites that are fine.Hurts a bit(no I’m not crying).

I remember when I was younger using winstrol v and sometimes the syringe would get clogged and I would have to pull the needle out push the plunger a little bit to clear the needle and would re inject and there would be no problem but I do this now and it still is almost impossible to inject.

Anyways hopefully it goes away as I skip the sites.Won’t know till I do my next cycle in about 3 months.

Appreciate the input.

36

Deaf - if you are talking about suspension products - then your account is not relevant is this is highly likely to be caused by something else entirely.

37

Is it possible that “scar tissue” is more likely to physically become trapped inside the bore of the needle, causing a physical clog?

38

[quote]OTS1 wrote:
Is it possible that “scar tissue” is more likely to physically become trapped inside the bore of the needle, causing a physical clog?[/quote]

No. When I hit a “wall,” so to speak, I can usually push deeper and then the oil suddenly starts flowing smoothly through.

39

To Westclock and Brook: No worries, guys, I was more concerned you would take my post the wrong way. Because I know what a shark tank this steroid forum is :wink:

I am as curious as you guys are, anyway. I have always just followed the bro-board assumption that “scar tissue” builds up in a muscle over time, and then I began to experience it, so I just accepted that for what I had heard it was. If there is something else going on there, then I am as interested as anyone else to learn just what it is.

In the meantime, and relevant to the OP, I can say that injecting over and over into the same area eventually causes something obstructive to build up, making injections more difficult or even impossible, in my body and in those of quite a number of others whose accounts I have previously read. So it is something to keep in mind.

Some guys “don’t” get gyno, either (fuckers). But I’m pretty sure that none of us here who have never happened to have experienced it would argue against its existence or a reasonable concern over preventing it, would we?

40

NO the products that i have used this over the last 7 months were cyp.enath,deca,tren ace,EQ.This cycle the problem actually started when I was using tren ace and enath.

The example I refered to was when I was younger.It was suspension test or winny.Just pointed out that it was a simular feeling when I couldn’t push the plunger in.I could pull out the winny injection and the needle would clear but this would not help the injections I do now.

Coartes is describing to a t exactly what problems I am having with my quad sites.First had it in my lelft quad now both.