T Nation

SC Test Cyp Shots

As an update, my total T was back to where it “should” be after my latest BW - it was up over 700 in a valley. I’d guess peak is somewhere close to 1000. My free T has always been on the high side of the range - actually marked high on most draws, but just slightly. So, it may just take a bit longer for levels to even out after making the swithc to SQ - I’ve been injecting SQ for several months now. Also - i did bump my dose to 120mg/wk, up from the 100mg/wk. That wouldn’t make a difference of over 300 points on the scale though, I wouldn’t think.

Crisler has even moved to recommending SQ now, FWIW. I would say that if you “feel” better going IM, then that’s what I would stick with.

The doctor ordered the labs but they were from a lab if you know what lab maybe they have the record and your new doctor could order it?? Not sure but worth looking into I think… The doctor is required to keep your records for 10 years there must be a way to get them… Not that it matters but if your balls were completely pooched maybe hcg isn’t doing anything for you. Just a thought

Your a big guy and yes I would say a hyper excreter so you would need more of a dose then me who is 180 for sure…

No I cannot tell if you are primary or secondary without lh and fsh and even then sometimes it is difficult cause it could be a little bit of both sometimes

Even if you went to 66 mg per shot and landed around 200 I say go for it if that’s what u need bro

The lab results are YOURS, the doctor has to give them to you if you ask. Period.

I put a call in for them today.
Do you mean Crisler has recommended SQ exclusively for TRT instead of IM? Are you a patient of his or know someone that is? He seems to be go to guy for all things TRT.

Look up sub q injections on you tube and you will see him injecting sub q to himself

I have been on the road for business and will have a high workload for 6-8 months that my limit my time here.

Thyroid is suspect. Caused by low iodine?

Testing LH/FSH on TRT is stupid as they will be low. Maybe one time as FSH not going near zero can indicate testicular cancer.

Your Total cholesterol would be idea at 185, your levels are pathologically low. At 160 and below, all cause mortality increases. Cholesterol is the foundation for many of your hormones [and cortisol] and Vit-D.

Study the diagram here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_hormone

Something is elevating ALT/AST. But sore muscles can do that too. Lay off intense lifting before your labs.

If that cholesterol was taken at 8AM, it is way too low. If taken later on, the results are not very useful.

Can you double your T dose? With your hyper metabolization of T, injecting twice a week may not be enough. Try injecting T EOD. We have seen a few guys here who have needed 300mg T to get to decent levels.

fT3 is very low, should be near 3.2, check your body temperatures and iodine intake as per below.


This is standard advice maintained here:

There is a huge amount of knowledge in the stickies. Please study these. Start with the advice for new guys sticky.


There is a lot to read there, so read carefully. There are suggestions for things that are root causes of low testosterone [T]. Low T is a symptom, not a root cause itself. But low T itself is a root cause of many of the symptoms one experiences. Note that other things cause the same spectrum of symptoms, so do not have T tunnel vision. Many docs are guilty of that and they only treat the symptom [low T] and do not attempt to find the real problem. If you go to a clinic that specializes in low T, you will get T tunnel vision for sure.

Post info about yourself as suggested in the above sticky. We need labs, almost all of your labs, not just hormones. We also need the lab ranges.

We see a very high number of thyroid issues in the population of guys that show up here. So there is a strong focus on that. Most people are iodine deficient to some degree. Your history of iodine intake from iodized salt and vitamins that list iodine is important. If you become iodine deficient, the RDA [recommended daily allowance] is inadequate for recovery of iodine stores. Please see the thyroid basics sticky for more information.


You do not want to suffer from subclinical hypothyroidism or get Rx thyroid meds to treat iodine deficiency.

If you are injecting T or contemplating that, read the protocol for injections sticky.

There are stickies for finding a TRT doc, estradiol [E2] and lab work.

Do not place your history or treatment details in the stickies! That belongs in your thread. Keep all of your posts in your thread so we can have a clear picture of your situation and needs.

With ft3 low was can assume rt3 is high and thus low body temps.

Do not take iodine without testing for autoimmune thyroid diseases such as hashimotos and graves disease.

50 mg of iodine is 333 times the daily recommended dose and could be dangerous, one must be careful of what we do when not under the care of an experienced thyroid professional.

No need to go to extremes here… 300 mg is alottt and I would want to see shbg numbers before driving ft sky high…

I think 66 mg or 60 mg 3 times a weeks is a good start.

I’m starting to see people that have really high free T have low shbg… This is new to me but I’m curious what your number is and would like to see what it does after adding more T.

Any chance you can test it before and after lol ?!!

Plus injecting 100 mg sub c seems like to much???

I appreciate everyone’s input. My wife was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s about 2 years ago. I just got BW done last week and should get the results in a couple of days. I think my hbg numbers were tested, but not my shbg. I’m not sure I know the difference.
I guess this means I’m a hyper metabolizer of T? Should I be concerned about this? Should I be looking for the underlying reason for this?
Aces, are you injecting SQ? And if so what is your protocol?
Thanks again guys.

Naa don’t be worried bro… It is what it is…

Shbg= sex hormone binding globulin

Not sure what hbg is but you might mean tgab if your referring to thyroid labs

I quit trt for now… I have other issues going on and did feel better on trt. I may have Lyme disease I’m pretty ill a lot of the time :(. Doctors here won’t help me. Which may be the reason I try and give help when I can… Because I know how hard it is to find answers…

Hey Aces- I looked at my labs again and it says HGB, I’ll have to ask my Dr what that is. I see him in a couple of days.
Sorry to hear about what your going through. Where do you live? They thought that my wife had Lyme disease and about to diagnose her sister with it. I’m hoping you live in SoCal. We have a great Dr where my wife finally got the answers she needed.
Your help here is very appreciated.

Hemoglobin is what he ordered.

I live in Ontario canada :frowning:

I’m not a patient of Crisler, I just read the forums on his site. Although I don’t think he recommends SQ exclusively, he does recommend them.

So Lyme turned into hashimotos?

Does she still have symptoms and what was the course of action?

No, sorry I confused you. They thought she might have Lyme. Then she was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s AND rheumatoid arthritis. For Hashimoto’s it’s been some sort of thyroid meds and rheumatoid it’s been methotrexate.

I think we’re going to see her RA Dr. and add some meds to the methotrexate, it’s just not slowing the RA progress. He mentioned Humira, but not sure he’ll want to add that.
Aces, Here’s something I ran across when researching Lyme for my wife when they thought she might have it.

I just got my BW back today from 2 months of IM. 60mg. 2X week and 250ius. hCG M-W-F…
My T dropped to 241. My Dr even commented on how I dropped about 200 points since I switched from SQ.
Aces, I think you’re right. I need to step up to 3X week injection of 60mg. Test Cyp and see what happens.
KSman commented I might be a hyper metabolizer ot T. Is that the same as a hyper excreter or is it secreter?

Ok I’m a bit worried about your wife lol.
RA is commonly given as a diagnosis when the patient actually has Lyme…

Hashimotos is a condition often seen with Lyme.

Was your wife tested from Igenex or fry labs?

Are you 1000 percent it’s not Lyme???

Yes hyper whatever is the same lol

[quote]catfish74 wrote:
I’m not a patient of Crisler, I just read the forums on his site. Although I don’t think he recommends SQ exclusively, he does recommend them.[/quote]
Do you inject SQ? If so how did it work for you compared to IM?

[quote]iw84aces wrote:
Ok I’m a bit worried about your wife lol.
RA is commonly given as a diagnosis when the patient actually has Lyme…

Hashimotos is a condition often seen with Lyme.

Was your wife tested from Igenex or fry labs?

Are you 1000 percent it’s not Lyme???

Yes hyper whatever is the same lol[/quote]

Those labs don’t ring a bell. No, I’m not sure. She’s not getting better maybe I should pursue this further. Now, you got me thinking it could have been Lyme all this time. And if RA and Hashimoto’s is often seen with Lyme, it only makes sense to look into and make sure. Thanks for the lab recommendations.

Don’t let me freak you out. Hashi’s and RA are real diagnosis… It’s just Lyme and RA can be much the same esp when co infections are involved.

To start I would order the Igenex complete Lyme panel… This is still not 100 percent going to pick up Lyme. But is the best test you can get for her rift now. It will be expensive somewhere around 400 dollars.

You need to find a Lyme literate doctor who is for real and not a quack.<~~ study this

Where are you from?

I was able to get my labs from my first BW. Who knew? Thanks for the info guys. My LH and FSH before starting TRT was: LH 4.9 (and FSH was 5.66. And I don’t know what any of this means, so any advice I welcome.

Aces- You could be onto something about this Lyme and my wife and I’m going to pursue it. She’s from New York and now we live in SoCal and she travels back to NY many times during the year. I’ll research about a Lyme literate Dr. I saw this article and it really hits home.
http://www.livingrheum.com/2010/07/19/misdiagnosed-with-rheumatoid-arthritis-ra-my-lyme-disease-story/

Thanks for the Dr. Crisler video conservativedog.