Time for my first morning HIIT session! Might wait until around 2pm to work out after this, we will see how I feel. After all It is only a total of approximately 35 to 45 seconds of real sprints, but I’m ACTUALLY pushing to my absolute maximum. IT took me a while to learn how to do this, and theres no way I can keep it up for over 15 seconds.
People who can do 30 seconds sprint 30 seconds walk with MAXIMUM intensity are either incorrect or absolutely AMAZING people, blows my mind someone can handle that.
Okay guys, revised things again. I know its my second revision in two days, that’s kinda how I do things… I take like 48 hours to really think things out, then stick with a strategy for 2 weeks and then re evaluate again (when cutting, when bulking I don’t adjust as much obviously, except for small cal increases).
So I ended up being really hungry after my hiit yesterday, and decided to listen to my body and ate 250 P / 250 C / 35 F, an extra 30 carbs.
Now I was losing fat extremely fast the first 3 weeks, like 3.5-4lb a week, and now I have stalled out the last 6 days… So I have added a short daily hiit session, first one was yesterday, and in addition to yesterdays slightly higher carb day, I’m going to eat 350g carbs today for a total of 2715 calories, then likely 300g carbs tomorrow for 2515 cals, then start doing 170 carbs daily with a 250carb higher day every fourth day, working out to 192.5 carbs daily average.
Hopefully this 2 (possibly 3) high carb day run in conjunction with starting daily short hiit sessions will jump start my metabolism! IT’s really hard for me to do higher calorie for 3 days especially when ive been stalling, it feels really weird, even though I am hungry! I really hope this jump starts the fat loss!
I just gotta put it into perspective… I’ve only lost 0.5lb in 6 days, so taking 3 days to possibly get things back in the 2lb a week neighbourhood is totally worth it!
As I am typing this, I have decided to hold off on this for just 2-3 days perhaps. I did just add HIIT yesterday, and did a 250carb day yesterday, so I will continue on the path of 170carb/day with 250 every 4th day, but if in the next 3-5 days I STILL stall out, even with the added HIIT, I will DEFINITELY do 3-4 days of high carbs, likely 300, 350, 350, 300 or something.
What are your guys opinions on longer carb refeeds like this? I know 3 days low 1 higher is traditionally “better”, but I have neglected my higher days and only done 2 in the last 3.5 weeks, so perhaps I will need more than 1 day to get that metabolism pumping.
My instinct is that 1/4 days high may KEEP the metabolism from slowing as much, but it will take atleast 3-4 days to rev it up for someone who has neglected high carb days for a few weeks.
^ that above statement is what i am REALLY looking for opinions and comments on
I have not followed every entry in this log, so I do not know every move that has been done and what your general approach is.
But let’s get this straight. Eight percent body fat is VERY lean, near contest shape lean! So anyone who diets to that sort of condition is going to be hungry. And hunger is not an indicator that someone should eat more or have a refeed by default. If that was the case, no one would be showing up onstage shredded. Towards the end of a prep, hunger is constant or near constant. What do you think would happen if everyone was having refeeds or increasing calories because of hunger?
Do you have a show you’re getting ready for? If not, why do you such a demanding stipulation on how much you’re losing per week. Two pounds per week is actually a large fat loss if someone is lean. I lost one and a half to two pounds per week over the course of eight weeks and it was highly uncomfortable!
This is not our way of doing things. We have planned weeks of eating all laid out in advance after a decision to adjust diet and training is made. Granted there are times in which we were running out of steam and some unforeseen refeed was assigned, but this not the way we went about it.
This is not a matter of how many you’ve done, more like what you need. We do carb cycling, so refers are few and far between considering there are high carb days assigned in advance.
This is not the way it works. I believe no one who has been a sane prep done over a long period of time would need three to four high carb days in a row to revive their performance in the gym. Towards the end of my prep I went for four weeks of eating 60 to 100 grams of carbs per day with ONE so-called refeed thrown in there (if we can even call it a refeed), and then putting the final touch on everything with a ketogenic diet for a week (a REAL ketogenic diet of 70% fat). There was no revving up of the metabolism with numerous high carb days but fat was literally falling off my body!
And again, if everyone was “listening to their body” they’d be eating too much to lose fat!
I think you need to revamp your way of doing this and learn some more about how to set it up. As said, we can be found for fine tuning.
Thanks for the input! Just goes to show that my original way of thinking was correct.
I stalled for a few days, so I questioned my methods and considered advice from another forum (refeeds and not to drop my cals lower). I Should have just been patient and seen what the added hiit did, because it got me right back on track!
IT’s been three days since the hiit was added and I’m burning fat on track again.
The way you described your prep is how my plan has been this whole time until I started questioning myself, or similar anyways. 3 lower carb days, then 1 medium carb day, no refeeds. I’m going to stick with that, 160g carbs for low days and 250 for the medium day.
I am hesitant to cut my calories lower, on average with the 3 low days and the medium day my calories over all per day are 2085.
So, I’m currently doing 45min fasted LISS, 10 min hiit daily (doing jump squats instead of sprints the day after leg day, decided that pretty quick today after attempting my first sprint), and 20min medium intensity liss post workout. Keeping in mind that this is already a decent amount of cardio, would you recommend dropping cals when I Stall out next? The cal drop would be from carbs, was thinking of dropping 200 when the need arises. Id like to have my next “Card” to play planned so I don’t panic when it happens next time.
I know you may recommend less hiit, but I would like to figure out my own limits and will reduce it as needed!
When you went down to 60-100g carbs, what where your protein and fat macros?
How low did you push your calories in total?
Thank you so much for your post, it really helped me rely on my original plan, and helped me realize that I DO NOT need big refeeds and “metablosim revving techniques” to keep losing fat.
You really helped restore my confidence in the basics, reminding me I Don’t need to resort to fancy shit.
No I’m not getting ready for a show, but I like to aim a little high so I don’t sell myself short. I don’t really expect to get exactly what I Am for as far as lb/week.
Realistically If I’m really stalling out around 9% i’ll stop there, but I Want to try to get to 8%, really for two reasons.
I plan on competing in the future and have a lot of bodybuilding aspirations, so even though I’m not going quite to contest levels, I feel its good practice as 8% would be leaner than I have ever been.
2.AAS work much better under 8% bf, especially for an estro sensitive guy like me! I feel like for the best results (not sure about natty guys but id imagine its the same) bulks should be started at bf of 10% or lower.
By the way the point of the 3 day refeed thing wasn’t to increase gym performance, my gym performance is doing well, it was all about the metabolism.
I realize now this isn’t a great idea! I was influenced from some advice on another forum, which it seems is doing me more harm then good lately, I think I’m gonna stick to just using this one
Your posts are really helpful man!
You said you guys can be found for fine tuning, so here is where I am at currently.
45 min liss, three-four aprox 15second hiit intervals alternated with 1.5-2min walking, and 20min Post workout medium/low intensity cardio.
250 protein, 170 carbs, 35 fat for three days, then one day of the same with 250 carbs, for an average of 2075 cals a day.
Fat loss picked back up with the addition of hiit, and I’m burning fat at a very comfortable/happy pace right now! Hard to be sure after just 3 days, but I am as sure as I “can be”.
Wondering what my next “Card” to play should be when I stall out again?
Am currently running 200mg/test right now, not diving into a cycle until I hit my BF goal.
Thanks guys, much appreciated! By far the most helpful and best advice ive gotten on forums before!
How are you seeing results from something in three days? You’re likely not.
THis is also a matter of total caloric amount. Are you weighing everything? Are you weighing yourself EVERY morning before breakfast.
You are already doing the amount of cardio one would need at the tail end of a prep! I don’t know how you would add more or decrease calories lower than 2,000 at this point–add another card that is!
About 200 grams of protein and 70 something grams of fat, if I recall correctly, but this would not apply to anyone but me in that situation considering it was my body at that time in the prep and considering what had been done in the FOUR MONTHS prior. My prep was five and a half months!
1950-2000 and I was smaller than you and this is where you’ve dropped them at your bigger size!
How do you even know what your bf percentage is?
There are men in the top ranks of PL and IFBB pro bodybuilding far bigger than anyone here and they aren’t walking around at 8% all year and they’re doing pretty damn good!
What I meant by fine-tuning is coaching, to put it clearer! It appears you do not know what to do considering you are asking what your next moves should bee and the only way to determine this is for someone to work with you, see what you’ve been doing all along, educate you, show you what do, and make decisions. I don’t mean to toot my profession/horn here, but I am a dietitian. So what you ask is actual work. Same goes for the other two men @The_Mighty_Stu@robstein working with nutrition for clients.
You’ve said you have disposable income and your family is taken care of. Why not spend some on what you love doing considering your goal of turning pro?
I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on what i’m doing, I just ask questions that way to get other peoples opinions
My weight never really fluctuates day to day, considering I eat EXACTLY the same thing every day and drink the same amount of water etc, except my high carb day…
For example my weight when I Was stalled over the last 6 days did not go up or down by more than 0.3 of an lb, the entire 6 days was spent between 197.5 and 197.8lb, and starting the day after I Added hiit, I have dropped 0.3lb, 0.2lb then 0.3lb. I know a lot of people say that it’s impossible to tell like that, but I find my body responds pretty immediately and plainly, when I Was dropping weight consisntantly it would be a solid 0.2lb to 0.4lb daily, and then I Would go up maybe 0.1lb the day after a high carb day.
IT seems to me my weight directly reflects an changes in my diet or cardio the next day. I weigh myself EVERY single day, and I have not a single case of my weight Fluctuating up AT ALL unless I had a high carb day the day before.
I mean obviously I take it with a grain of salt, not that I think ive lost exactly 1lb because that’s what the scale went down, but it never goes back up, and I mean after it staying within 0.3lb for 6 days then the day after I add hiit it goes down and continues the trend every day after, seems pretty cut and dry to me. I know this goes against a lot of what people know or think, and it goes against what I have learned too, but the proof seems to be in the pudding. My weight fluctuates much more when bulking.
I Could post a log of my daily weights and daily calories every day since the cut started if youd like, you could see the patterns for yourself if you are interested.
I always weigh myself right after waking up, after going to the bathroom, and before doing anything else.
I’m not really looking for a coach or anything, I like figuring my body out my own way. I am just asking questions here to see what other people think.
I mean, I know what I am going to do when I stall out next, but I ask the question because I value other opinions as well, its not like I am sitting here thinking “oh shit what do I do” lol.
For example, there are numerous people I look upto in this sport who have contradictory opinions at times, which is why I always try to ask the opnion of everyone who I respect and look upto in this sport! Even if I feel set in my ways on something, I will still pose a question without an opinion because I do factor other’s thoughts into my own conclusions!
That being said, I’m sure I could benefit from a coach, and that may be something I look into when I am having trouble progressing!
Right now I am experiencing great progress and have been since I got back into bodybuilding, I mean my body isn’t where it used to be muscularity wise and I have much more knowledge now than I did then, so I feel I have quite a ways to go before I really will need a coach!
I’m sure there are ifbb guys that walk around over 8% of course, but the standard I am trying to hold myself to this time around is being under 10% before bulking, and never to bulk past 12%. I wont usually be cutting to 8%, but I wanted to try and push myself this time and get leaner than I ever have before, I guess you could say as practice!
Just because there are guys who are pro who may start a bulk at 12% or whatever doesn’t mean I Can’t try (key word, try) to hold higher standards than that. My ambition is to be a pro in the IFBB so I really should be trying to hold myself to as high of standards as I Can… I’m not delusional and I know that is a very far off ambition, but I’m certainly not going to get there by saying “Well this guy walks around over 12% all year round and hes a pro”, know what I mean? I just feel if I hold my self to the highest standards possible, maybe just maybe I could have a chance of making it to the ifbb
Before I go ahead and respond to this I want to make clear that I do not intend to be confrontational, rude, or whatever. I am simply talking shop in a straightforward manner. You seem like a nice guy so I have no intention of causing trouble. However, with that aside, I am just going to call it as I see it as it pertains to bodybuilding. That’s all.
I know how this goes. Anyway, if you have a grasp on what you’re doing, why would you want others’ opinions? To deter your own strategy? Simply for conversation? If for conversation, that’s fine, but I don’t see why someone with confidence on what he’s doing would often ask for others’ opinions. Much of this isn’t opinion anyway. Its simply judgement and decision making.
Isn’t your aim to lose weight? Everyone’s weight fluctuates but if you’re doing things right, there should be a downward trend over weeks.
This is not a matter of weight changes over a few days! This is about patterns one sees from training and diet from week to week. Sometimes there might not even be significant weight changes but changes in body composition.
How is performing HIIT and losing fat from doing it going against what anyone who knows what their doing thinks?!
You can post them but I will have no idea what is going on unless you indicate what days are low, medium, and high carb/calorie days and what you do on those days for cardio and/or weight training. But even then I won’t be able to review it and offer guidance because that requires work.
What are you going to do with others’ thoughts? I believe you intend to use them if they sound appealing!
AGAIN, if you know what to do why would you want other people’s input?
I guess some people have different approaches but I will say this with confidence. The best ones who are not wrecking themselves and showing up lean AND full are doing the same thing: lowering calories and increasing activity over time in a calculated manner. That’s it!
This sounds highly contradictory!
This is actually the wrong approach in improving! In order to get ahead as quickly as possible, the quicker you need to learn and be educated. It’s actually the reverse of what you said. Either one has to obtain the right information oneself and apply it or pay someone for it. And if someone keeps doing the wrong thing by oneself, then that is a loss of time and placings lower than what one might be capable of.
Yes, a trial faux-prep can be useful.
You are not holding a higher standard than the next guy simply because you will be a leaner than them in the offseason considering 12% is pretty lean for everyday life as it is! It’s perfectly acceptable for offseason bodybuilders, athletes, or regular people. All this talk about gurus and other clowns walking around year round at sub-10% is mostly bullshit, or they are starving themselves and performing like shit and not gaining mass.
Do you really think you will be holding a higher standard based off of a fat percentage you hold in the offseason? You might even not gain as much as you could had you allowed yourself to be at 12-15%. Do you think you’ll be holding a higher standard than Dorian Yates, Nasser El Sonbaty, Mike Francois, or any other monsters we’ve seen in the offseason? Do you know what they looked like? Can anyone on here have beat them! NO!
So no, I don’t know what you mean. You won’t be making unusual gains because you’ll be using drugs at 8% versus 12% and judges certainly don’t measure anyone for that.
There are also some phenomenal WNBF natural pros who have gotten quite soft in the offseason (not that this is such a great thing) who can beat anyone on this board!
You are actually a prime candidate of someone who actually does need coaching considering what you’re stating and implying in this thread.
AGAIN: this is not an attack on you, but simply bodybuilding talk, and nothing else. So I hope you don’t take it as an offense. As you likely know, sometimes adults have to tell one another where it’s at. What can be far worse than this talk is spending months or years working on yourself in a haphazard manner and not placing where you might have been able to! This hobby is expensive in time and even sometimes money and there is much sacrifice to it. Do you want to do it right or wrong?
No worries i’m not taking it offensively.
jeeze way to much to reply to everything haha.
When I Said “Goes against what most people think”, I wasn’t talking about hiit, I Was talking about how I Feel I can see immediate result reflected in the scale much faster than people say is normal, maybe partly because I eat the exact same thing daily so not much fluctuation!
Of course I may do things I learn from other people. I feel I have a good grasp on what I Am doing, but there are very educated people who have contradictory opinions and always will be, so I will always be asking other peoples opinions regardless of how well I may think I have things figured out! I think we might just be taking eachother out of context a bit there so i’m just gonna leave that alone, no offence intended or taken though!
I know some people let the bf get higher, but you absolutely will get better results running aas at 8% than 12% when bulking. Not “unusual gains”, but your % of muscle vs fat will be better.
I don’t think there is any reason for a serious bodybuilder to go over 12%, ever. I know LOTS of people don’t agree with this, and prefer the traditional bulk methods, but I firmly believe that you will do far better if you don’t let yourself get over 12%.
Sure you can build muscle fine with higher bf, but the ratio of muscle to fat is better at lower bf (to a point, obviously it can be detrimental too low), and obviously putting on less fat means less time cutting and more results in less time in the longrun.
Maybe it’s not a huge difference, but I believe its still a difference. There are studies proving your nutrient partitioning AND insulin sensitivity are both MUCH better at lower bf, and this makes a huge difference! This is why some guys at lower BF can do great on very high carb but they couldn’t do well on the same high carb diet at say 15%, this is something I have experienced personally.
Also, it’s really not a good idea to be running AAS over 12% at all, you get MUCH higher aromatization rates, and much worse insulin sensitivity/nutrient partitioning… ESPECIALLY using insulin, you will gain way too much fat with muscle if you are over 12% really I Wouldn’t even use slin unless under 10%, not that I’d use slin right now anyways.
I strongly feel that this is a hugely overlooked factor in quality of gains, nutrient partitioning is a big thing.
Of course lots of guys can have amazing success letting there BF get high, I know lots of pros do this, but really that’s a moot argument. Obviously we can do lots from top level guys but it definitely doesn’t mean they do everything 100% optimally! Just like there are top level guys who rely on some of the logic that I stated earlier that you classified as bunk (not saying you are not correct, you very well may be), there are also top level guys doing other things that are not absolutely ideal.
I mean science has proven nutrient partitioning is much better at 10% than 15%, and nutrient partitioning will have an effect on the muscle vs fat ratio of weight you put on when in a gaining phase.
The only debatable part is HOW MUCH of a difference it makes, not if it does make a difference. Even if its a very small difference, since this is something i’m putting my 100% effort into, ill take the small bonus any day!
I’m sure a coach would help me, as i’m sure a coach would help anyone.
I don’t think I need to get one at the moment though, because I’m making huge progress.
I’ve dropped 3% bf in the last 4 weeks, and don’t think i’ll have any trouble hitting 9-10% without much of a struggle.
That being said I don’t think i’m gonna go to 8%, I dropped my cals too fast! I went from 2800-2400 way too fast, cause I was expecting results too fast.
I will not drop my cals more than another 200 tops and if I do it will be for like 1 week maybe a tiny bit more, I really don’t wanna go much lower, so I will be very likely ending before 8%!
Next time I’ll start higher with more carbs, that’s for sure!
I think you definitely mis understood a lot of what you replied to in this post though.
OF course I might use advice that others give. 9/10 times I won’t directly use there advice, but if it’s from a good source I will factor it into my over all decisions when considering something.
IT’s not so much your direct advice that I am after, but your logic behind it which I Take into account when applying my own logic. So no, I won’t really be taking anyone’s direct thoughts and applying them if they seem sound, but the more sound they seem the more they will factor into my logic when I make a decision! That being said, I could come to the same decision someone suggested, but I Wont just take a suggestion because it seems sound.
IF you would like to see the log, yes it includes everything you mentioned (high, low, med days, all macros, whats done for cardio, and for weights.
I understand it would take work to give advice based on it but I thought you might be curious is all!
Performing hiit and losing fat from it doesn’t go against what anyone thinks, you have misunderstood what I was getting at there. Was talking about how directly the scale reacts to what I do the previous day, and how these trends aren’t really influenced by fluctuations it seems during this cut where I consume the dame things daily.
“This is not a matter of weight changes over a few days! This is about patterns one sees from training and diet from week to week. Sometimes there might not even be significant weight changes but changes in body composition”
Really don’t see what your getting at here… of course what youre saying is correct, but its the same thing as I am saying. The only difference is I can see an indication of results in the trend in just 3 days. The real results obviously aren’t happening day to day but 3 days is enough of an indication for me.
Sure, losing 0.3lb every day for 3 days isn’t “Results” but in my experience it shows what I’m doing is working. What I mean is, because I have seen this 0.3lb loss every day for 3 days, starting the day after a big change is made in my routine, I Can INFER that this trend will continue for a week or more, and these conclusions I come to in this manner have always been correct.
For example, I have lost 0.4lb since yesterday morning as of today, so that’s 4 days in a row now, and I’m sure I will continue to lose between 0.2 and 0.4lb per day for the next week or more from the change I made.
It seems you’re getting offended and really don’t like when someone doesn’t agree with you which is disappointing. I mean you mis understand half of what I Say, post very good and credible facts but you post them as if they are news to me, based on a misunderstanding of my posts, and now your getting frustrated about it… I didn’t mean any insult, my post was in much less of an “Attacking” manor and I Was able to take your post without assuming ill intent, so I really don’t understand how this is offending you, hence the disappointment. I was hoping for an intellectual debate, not you quickly skimming what I Say, misunderstanding, then posting basic advice as if I’m an idiot.
Like no shit successful cuts are based on the slow and calculated lowering and manipulation of calories and addition of cardio!
We are discussing the technical and complicated bits that add up to the extra 3%!
So why bombard me with simple advice and act like It should be news to me? I was intending to discuss techniques to get the extra 1% out of things.
Thanks for everything though, I guess we can end this here now. Ill tag you in the post when I have (a) picture(s)
that’s not a true thing. I don’t know why you believe this, or where you heard it from. Most guys I lift with make substantially more progress while they are at a higher bodyfat than this. This includes AAS users and non-users alike.
I wish you’d quite saying things like this, and not posting pictures. Seriously man, why do you keep saying you’ll post some and then you don’t? Taking a selfie is the easiest goddamn thing in the world. Seriously. Take your shirt off. Stand in front of the mirror. Snap a picture. Upload to your log. Done. You’ve had SO MANY PEOPLE asking for this, because it would lend so much more credibility to your claims… or conversely, it could prove your claims wrong. My gut says the latter. I still strongly doubt that you have a respectable physique to this point. I also have doubts about where your bodyfat % is. Nothing has added up, in my own opinion, to this point. You should assume that people across this board will not take you seriously if you don’t post a picture or a few very soon.
OF course people can make progress with higher bodyfat, even amazing progress.
IF you read my post I Stated that perhaps the benefit is only a slightly better muscle to fat ratio, even just a couple %.
Regardless of how small the difference is, it’s there. You have better nutrient partitioning at lower bf and that’s not debateable, I can link some studies if you want.
Ive already explained I Don’t have a phone and my webcam is such low quality you cant even see my physique with it.
I have an old flip phone somewhere though ill dig it up, I think I can connect it with a simple usb cord so ill look for it and put pics up tonight, and then you all have to apologize for questioning me
Honestly I’m not really comfortable doing it, but I will since you are all being so persistent. I don’t look great but I AM 196.6 and was 11.2% as of mmm 96 hours ago about, I just have issues with self image I guess cause I know my stats are decent.
I will post by tonight. Just a couple of one handed pics with a shitty flip phone cam though no lifting vids…
I will post them tonight to end this nonsense, but really where do people get off demanding a picture from someone? Like obviously if someone’s not comfortable posting a picture, who are you to comment on a thread that you haven’t even been a part of and demand pictures? it’s one thing to do it as brickhead has and ask for a pic after trying to help, but to just post and demand a pic? I Don’t owe any of you anything!
I am going to post one tonight, I am just making a point here.
I really don’t think it is right for people to demand a pic from someone unless they are making outrageous claims OR putting down other peoples physiques saying there own is superior. I mean what business does someone who has NEVER even made a post to me have demanding a picture of me?
Some people have image issues and just aren’t comfortable with that sort of thing.
Anyways, you’ll get what you want because I’m sick of the “post a picture or your lying” shit, like really yeah id have a 200 comment conversation about cutting advice for an imaginary physique, lol.
I look better at the gym with a pump (obvs) and I’m on my way there in half hour, found my flipphone so yall will be getting a pic sooner than I thought…
The only reason people have doubted you is because of how you came on this thread. Most people have zero problem with people not having pictures on their logs or whatever. It’s the claims and such you have made and how defensive you become when people ask. People usually do not get scrutinized quite like you are getting now when they sign up here.
