T Nation

Saw Palmetto and Gyno?

Hi, long-time lurker. I’ve never used steroids, but a couple of weeks ago, I started taking Saw Palmetto to prevent hairloss. I know its efficiency in that matter is questionable (at best) but I figured I would try it anyway. By the way, I’m 25.

Last week, I noticed my right nipple was a little puffy and it was sensitive when I went running. I first thought it was nothing, but it’s still there after a week. I’ve never experienced any sort of gyno, but this can’t be a coincidence, right? I stopped taking SP three days ago cause I got kinda freaked out.

Can I expect the puffiness to go away or should I take something to get rid of it? For now, it’s only puffiness, no hard lump unerneath the nipple.

From what I understand, if the SP is effective, it prevents Test conversion to DHT. That could lead to more Test being converted into E, hence the gyno. Is my condition reversible? Would an anti-E be beneficial? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Sounds like the SP boosted your test level and initiated increased aromatization. I think Adex could be effective. It may calm down on ots own now that you have discontinued the SP. Sounds like the SP was quit eeffective. Had you been taking an AI with it, you may have noticed positive effects. Not saying that that would have been standard proctice just thinking out loud. Zinc might helpas it is known to be a natural AI. Maybe some more experienced guys will weigh in. You could always ask KSman. He is very knowledgeable on these matters.

I seriously doubt saw palm is ANYWHERE near strong enough for what you described. Like so f

To be honest I would say its probably nipple irritation.

I had a little scare a while back, the nipple gets pinched, rubbed raw, irritated ect and itches and swells.

Mine was IDENTICAL to what your describing, puffy and a little swollen but very soft.

Its likely just the nipple itself was injured by rubbing with your shirt or some such, marathon runners tape their nipples to prevent this during the race.

Its more common with non-cotton shirts, or jersey materials that are popular these days, its like taking a belt sander to your nips.

Ice it down to help it heal, if it doesn’t go away after another week come talk to us, and we will see whats up.

whats up is dudes titties,which are lookin mighty plump.

0I had my right nip do the same thing a while back,I though Oh crap is it gyno cause I know my T levels are out of whack right now,but then when I saw a little rub spot on my areola I knew it was cause I was sweaty and it rubbed on my shirt and inflamed it.

after 2 days of shirtless airing out I was fine,no more dscomfort.

wait a few days and pinch under them see if there is a lump forming thats the most tell tale sign

there are so many reasons why our nips could hurt and I really dont think SP would cause this effect. but i dont know either we will see.

Thanks for the replies fellas! My first thought was also nipple irritation at first, because I first noticed it after it hurt when I went running (was wearing a dri-fit, under-armour type shirt). It was more the fact that it hadn’t gone away after a week that stressed me out, and that’s when I thought it could be related to the SP, since I had recently started using it.

So I’ll take your advice, wait a few days or a week and see what happens. There’s still no lump though, a good sign I guess. Thanks a lot!

[quote]McFly21 wrote:
Thanks for the replies fellas! My first thought was also nipple irritation at first, because I first noticed it after it hurt when I went running (was wearing a dri-fit, under-armour type shirt). It was more the fact that it hadn’t gone away after a week that stressed me out, and that’s when I thought it could be related to the SP, since I had recently started using it.

So I’ll take your advice, wait a few days or a week and see what happens. There’s still no lump though, a good sign I guess. Thanks a lot![/quote]

try not wearing these shirts,wear a “wife beater” or other loose fitting natural fiber shirt.

watch to see if there is a lump later dont panic and play with it all day like I do either that makes it worse.

if you do get that irritation when running try taking a no stick guaze pad (sp) and tape it to your nipple
or a band aide works good too I use band aides when I will be out in a wet enviroment.

try this and watch for changes if there are be sure to come back and plenty of people will be willing to help
just no worries as of yet.

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Sounds like the SP boosted your test level and initiated increased aromatization. I think Adex could be effective. It may calm down on ots own now that you have discontinued the SP. Sounds like the SP was quit eeffective. Had you been taking an AI with it, you may have noticed positive effects. Not saying that that would have been standard proctice just thinking out loud. Zinc might helpas it is known to be a natural AI. Maybe some more experienced guys will weigh in. You could always ask KSman. He is very knowledgeable on these matters.[/quote]

I dont mean to make you feel bad Dynamo Hum - But do you really think you have a right to be dispensing advice here - no less recommending drugs to people?

Are you not on your first ever cycle?

Keep reading Dynamo and please don’t be so quick to recommend drugs to people that have not yet interfered with their endogenous hormone levels - or even anyone just yet.

Thanks.

Brook

[quote] Brook wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:
Sounds like the SP boosted your test level and initiated increased aromatization. I think Adex could be effective. It may calm down on ots own now that you have discontinued the SP. Sounds like the SP was quit eeffective. Had you been taking an AI with it, you may have noticed positive effects. Not saying that that would have been standard proctice just thinking out loud. Zinc might helpas it is known to be a natural AI. Maybe some more experienced guys will weigh in. You could always ask KSman. He is very knowledgeable on these matters.

I dont mean to make you feel bad Dynamo Hum - But do you really think you have a right to be dispensing advice here - no less recommending drugs to people?

Are you not on your first ever cycle?

Keep reading Dynamo and please don’t be so quick to recommend drugs to people that have not yet interfered with their endogenous hormone levels - or even anyone just yet.

Thanks.

Brook[/quote]

You’re right. I’ll put a lid on it.

I am not trying to be a cunt DH, and you are quite knowledgeable, But you know what i mean.

:slight_smile:

Ok, so it’s been another week, and there’s no improvement. It hasn’t gotten any worse either, still no hard lump or anything. Doesn’t hurt, doesn’t really itch, isn’t red.

Just swollen, but not any more than before (not any less either). If it was to stay that way, it wouldn’t really be a big deal, it just looks like I’m cold, but just on one side… Wouldn’t want it to get worse though. Any thoughts? You guys still think it’s just irritation?

Hmm the lack of itchness and pain is odd.

I would recommend icing it from time to time.

Have you made an effort to wear cotton shirts and not polyester and such ?

Also what kind of shirt do you sleep in ? Id recommend something cotton, soft and loose.

define swollen you said like your cold. As in the nipple is hard ? That is actually normal for men from time to time.

Or is it swollen as in “puffy”, if its puffy then I might be worried.

[quote]McFly21 wrote:
Ok, so it’s been another week, and there’s no improvement. It hasn’t gotten any worse either, still no hard lump or anything. Doesn’t hurt, doesn’t really itch, isn’t red.

Just swollen, but not any more than before (not any less either). If it was to stay that way, it wouldn’t really be a big deal, it just looks like I’m cold, but just on one side… Wouldn’t want it to get worse though. Any thoughts? You guys still think it’s just irritation?[/quote]

Since I started cycle my nipples are more pronounced than before. I have come to realize this is normal. Mine were kind of pre-pubescent looking before. Now they are more like many virile males. No tissue buildup behind the nipple or swelling of the pec. Simply a regular male nipple. Maybe this is the case for you too?

Might be. But just on one side? Like I said, it’s really not that bad. I don’t feel like there’s a tissue buildup behind the nipple, just looks like it’s swollen (or puffy, it’s really soft, nothing hard at all). Nothing in the pec, either. Basically, the nipple is just always pointy, and the areola seems smaller in diameter than the left one.

I rarely wore shirts when I slept before, but since this occured I wear loose cotton T-shirts. I’ll try the ice though, haven’t yet.

I do have more gyno type irritation on cycle than off… which is kind of obvious when i think about it as my estrogen is going to be much higher when using than when not.

I personally do have a couple small gyno lumps that i use to monitor the levels of estrogen in my system quite effectively.

Is it possible you never noticed it before but taking the saw palmetto made you double check out of paranoia and then you noticed it?

I cant see how saw palmetto could have had that effect but seeing as everyone is different - and some get gyno with no external interference at all, it is definitely possible.

I would say this… IMO, the saw palmetto may well have started a gyno problem. Discontinuation of the herb has now brought you to your “homeostasis”(!) which has stopped the aggravation of the problem. It should not worsen if you do nothing to affect your hormone levels. As you age however and your test levels drop and estrogen levels rise this gyno will naturally increase as it does in MOST men.

It is upto you… you can keep an eye on it and not do anything, you are 25… the age inflicted gyno is a while off most likely. OR you could use anti estrogens now… OR - and my personal suggestion - you could do nothing, watch it, and make sure you have a bottle of nolvadex on hand in case it does worsen (say after a heavy nights drinking - alcohol can make sensitive gyno worsen IMPE).

There is one more option (assuming it is gyno as you said it has no hard lump and it looks like you are cold on one side - well is it just erect then>??!) if it is gyno, you could run a letro cycle to reduce it is it is not as bad as to be glandular yet… but i am not 100% convinced it actually is the case yet.

Brook

[quote] Brook wrote:
I do have more gyno type irritation on cycle than off… which is kind of obvious when i think about it as my estrogen is going to be much higher when using than when not.

I personally do have a couple small gyno lumps that i use to monitor the levels of estrogen in my system quite effectively.

Is it possible you never noticed it before but taking the saw palmetto made you double check out of paranoia and then you noticed it?

I cant see how saw palmetto could have had that effect but seeing as everyone is different - and some get gyno with no external interference at all, it is definitely possible.

I would say this… IMO, the saw palmetto may well have started a gyno problem. Discontinuation of the herb has now brought you to your “homeostasis”(!) which has stopped the aggravation of the problem. It should not worsen if you do nothing to affect your hormone levels. As you age however and your test levels drop and estrogen levels rise this gyno will naturally increase as it does in MOST men.

It is upto you… you can keep an eye on it and not do anything, you are 25… the age inflicted gyno is a while off most likely. OR you could use anti estrogens now… OR - and my personal suggestion - you could do nothing, watch it, and make sure you have a bottle of nolvadex on hand in case it does worsen (say after a heavy nights drinking - alcohol can make sensitive gyno worsen IMPE).

There is one more option (assuming it is gyno as you said it has no hard lump and it looks like you are cold on one side - well is it just erect then>??!) if it is gyno, you could run a letro cycle to reduce it is it is not as bad as to be glandular yet… but i am not 100% convinced it actually is the case yet.

Brook[/quote]

I’ll probably just wait a couple more weeks to see what happens. And if it stays that way, then so be it, as long as it doesn’t worsen. Of course, I’m not convinced it’s gyno either, so I’ll wait and see, checking for any changes. But to answer your question, it’s definitely not something that I had before and just noticed recently.

Anyways, if it does get bad, I’ll go see the doc and look into the treatment options you mentioned. This might sound weird, and maybe I’m wrong, but if in fact the SP caused this, that would mean it was pretty effective for me as far as inhibiting Test conversion to DHT. I’m thinking I’ll eventually start taking some again and see if it aggravates the problem. If it does, then I’ll know for sure…