T Nation

Saved a Life!


#1

Personally I do not need to be told when I convince a lady to save the life of her unborn child, though it would be quite nice. In fact it would light a fire big enough in my soul that I would never falter in my attempts. Though as I type these words, I have been praying and fighting for life for nearly a decade while never once being told that I directly saved the life of a perfectly innocent child. My passion grows every year and I am proud to know: I survived Roe v Wade, yet Roe v Wade will NOT survive me!

ps - Does everyone still see the videos? They still have their secured address, that is why I ask ; )


#2

If you were raped and impregnated what would you do?


#3

I have a very good friend who's wife has a severe skin disorder. Essentially if she gets pregnant her skin will split apart as she grows killing herself and the baby. She wants to have kids and has been trying some things that may make that possible.

If she was impregnated today would abortion be ok to save her life? Neither her nor the baby will survive. Is that just God's will?


#4

Out of the 900k some odd abortions a year, these are two extreme examples of a vast, vast minority of cases.

If it was only the minority of cases like you describe that were resulting in abortions, and not the hundreds of thousands of "elective procedures" I don't think the argument from the pro-life side would be the same as it is now.

Some people would, sure, but not to the same degree as now.


#5

Every one is jumping to the conclusion that because it is alive and human = murder . Sperm is alive and it is human


#6

Actually sperm is half human, since it only has half the chromosomes.


#7

I don't know of any cases of a man getting impregnated via rape.

However, you have just entered the vortex of subjectivity in regard to the value of a human life. If the question of whether or not a human should die is not black and white then that logic can be applied to a fetus. Pro life should apply to all people but it doesn't so why call it that?


#8

What is this relevant to?

You are missing my point I think.

You are using, what really amounts to a slippery slope argument for keeping abortion legal, by using an example of a situation that occurs very rarely.

I think instances of rape and incest pregnancies fall under health of the mother.

If the only times abortion were on the table as legal were in instances of health of the mother concerns, and people were arguing whether or not she should have a choice to end the child's life, then the argument for and against abortion would be much different than it is today with the amount of elective abortions there are.

Basically, all I'm saying, without taking a side here, is if the only instances where abortion were legal were those you and H described, I feel like the pro-life side would feel as if they had successfully changed the culture and saved something like 900k people a year from death.

While some would still fight to end all abortion, it would be a lessor fight than there is now. And the pro-choice crowd would have a much different platform to stand on.


#9

How many is half again?


#10

it would be human sperm , correct ?


#11

And history also shows us that making things illegal does not end them. Heroin, murder, rape, all illegal and all happen.

See Romania for examples of what happens when you stop abortion and get rid of contraceptives which is what many religious people are for.

It's basic economics. Black markets will pop up for abortion to meet the demand. I think it's way more pro-life to have it done in a safe and healthy manner than to say well forget those women and their kids who will choose to go down that route.

Abortion has happened throughout history and always will.


#12

The USA (and other countries as well) have changed the definition of innocent in regard to people to fit a policy decision. We have put a value on people we have defined as innocent. Is there a difference between an aborted fetus and a dead child called collateral damage? How many Pro-lifers cheered on Shock and Awe? Maybe Pro-lifers would be looked at differently if they were consistent.


#13

I live in rural Kansas and I can't tell you the amount of staunch pro-lifers who have suggested the solution in Iraq and Afghanistan was "nuke those towel heads."

How pro-life and Christian of you good sirs!


#14

Correct. And I agree.

I'm trying to keep my personal views out of the conversation, but I can't in order to comment here.

Whether or not abortion should be legal is really a wasted conversation. Like you said, making, changing or eliminating laws isn't going to change the situation. Just like making guns illegal don't take them from the hands of evil people.

We, as a nation, would need a cultural change in order to see a drastic drop in abortion rates. That takes work beyond what I see out of a lot of both camps on the issue.

Even with the cultural change, there would likely be pockets of abortion, but drastically less, and mostly for legit medical reasons I would have to assume.

I just can't stop thinking our grand kids' grand kids will look back at us as monsters for doing this to the unborn, much like slavery is viewed today...

How many pro-choicers are for gun control to "save one child's life" because of Newtown?

Lets not pretend being inconsistent isn't a bipartisan issue here.


#15

Should be a doesn't rather than a don't in there... Too lazy to edit


#16

I don't see the connection. I mean, pro-choicers don't see a fetus as a child so there is no comparison in their minds to make it inconsistent.


#17

THIS.

If a fraction of the energy spent on arguing back and forth over what is and probably always will be a stalemate were transferred to the thing we can ALL agree on, we'd be much better off.

Showing pictures of aborted fetuses to pro-choicers tends only to make them hate anti-abortionists more.


#18

I would love to see a huge step up in support for birth control and condom use to reduce unwanted pregnancies. Both sides can (and should) work together to limit the amount of unwanted pregnancies.


#19

And the others you were rallying against see the citizens killed by our bombs as people?

Just because the people you choose to point out inconsistencies with are wrong about their perception of who is or isn't people, doesn't make the pro-choice view that a baby isn't a baby, correct.


#20

Agree again, but preventing pregnancy goes well into personal responsibility as well.

I mean I can teach the most comprehensive course on sex ed the world has ever seen and stand on a corner and pass out pills and condoms... I, however, can't be there to put them on.

I never wore the damn things, and I knew damn well the consequences.