Save Acetominophen!

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
PB-Crawl wrote:

Hey maybe people might realize their being scammed constantly in their otc drugs. acetaminophen is a good effective drug, but there are side effects, for minor pain. There is no need for a large dose of a drug used to treat minor pain in a combination with opiates used to treat severe pain.

You sure about that? I assume you have a biochemical understanding of the pros and cons right?

theres no reason to add whey concentrate to your pwo drink if its already got a lot of whey hydro. Its just not effective.

Except in this case, it sends your liver to hell. You’d be surprised how many people i hear at the pharmacy say they take 2 acetaminophen every four hours, every day, regardless of pain. And i hear from other pharmacies as well.

Those people are fucking morons. Why should I have to deal with shit because people are too stupid to take care of themselves? It’s on the label, you KNOW pain medication is for PAIN, not regular use. If you are too stupid to know how to follow those directions you should not get to whine when you fuck yourself over.[/quote]

Scammed part i was referring to drug companies selling the same drug on two different labels for two different conditions but charging different prices. But thats more of a hijack than anything so ill drop it.

i dont use otc pain meds, they’re all not worth it. But i see no point to advertising a cough syrup formula to treat a cough, but include a mild pain reliever in it. especially when they don’t advertise the pain relief part.

theres obviously a disconnect here between consumers and the drug companies, since theres a shit ton of people out there who assume everything otc is safe and ok for you, and don’t understand that mild pain killers are just as dangerous at opiates.

i dont think acetaminophen or other otc drugs should be banned. while i have reservations that no one really should ever take them, none the less we need to have a free market. HOWEVER, i’d rather see some labeling requirements to that products containing acetaminophen need to clearly label on the front that they contain or it a product also used to treat pain relief, no just “cough and cold.” Personally i’d like to see the industry step up and do this, but im not delusional and realize they won’t unless pushed. people put a lot of good faith in drug companies, we do need these companies to serve their role, i just don’t think that good faith should be abused.

i only think the fda should step in when there is a serious disconnect or problem, i think this is a good case to do that, cheerios however is not.

22

[quote]pat wrote:
I just got a call from the FDA…
They said that they are not going to reduce dosages or remove from acetaminophen combination meds. All they are going to do is increase the warning.
She said they have been getting a lot of calls on this.

Victory for freedom! Vicodin and percocet for all!!![/quote]

very nice, maybe there is a slight hope for the fda.

23

[quote]pat wrote:
I just got a call from the FDA…
They said that they are not going to reduce dosages or remove from acetaminophen combination meds. All they are going to do is increase the warning.
She said they have been getting a lot of calls on this.

Victory for freedom! Vicodin and percocet for all!!![/quote]

First reporters Grill the Administration on it’s double standard hypocrytism, and now the FDA backs down from a position and actually calls a concerned constituent to let them know! Ala WWE…

Holy Shit! Holy Shit! Holy Shit! Holy Shit!

V

24

[quote]Vegita wrote:
pat wrote:
I just got a call from the FDA…
They said that they are not going to reduce dosages or remove from acetaminophen combination meds. All they are going to do is increase the warning.
She said they have been getting a lot of calls on this.

Victory for freedom! Vicodin and percocet for all!!!

First reporters Grill the Administration on it’s double standard hypocrytism, and now the FDA backs down from a position and actually calls a concerned constituent to let them know! Ala WWE…

Holy Shit! Holy Shit! Holy Shit! Holy Shit!

V[/quote]

No, I was contacted directly by a U.S. Senator and the FDA on the same day! That’s Holy Shit^10!

25

[quote]Unaware wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
OK, but IF it turns out that tens of thousands of people are being harmed through no fault of their own by labeling that features either dangerously high maximum dosages or inadequate interaction warnings then it’s tough to fault a move that simply corrects that which is at least one version of what is going on that I’ve read.

I am NO nanny state guy as you are well aware, but average people are not pharmacists and will trust whatever the label says which they should be able to do.

But its not the labeling that is the problem. Its not people taking what the package says that are getting the liver damage. Its when they go above and beyond the recommended dosage, or combine multiple sources of the drug. There probably should be a better label about the how serious the damage is if you overdose, but limiting it because people don’t bother to read the label is not the solution. [/quote]

The problem too, is that many people don’t realize the risks, and when they get high on vicoden and take a few extra ones, it’s damaging. My doc takes liver levels every 6 months.

I have 2-3 bad back situations on average a year from an old injury where I had my L5 disc removed… and he draws blood to make sure the Norco isn’t hurting me too much.

26

[quote]Unaware wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
OK, but IF it turns out that tens of thousands of people are being harmed through no fault of their own by labeling that features either dangerously high maximum dosages or inadequate interaction warnings then it’s tough to fault a move that simply corrects that which is at least one version of what is going on that I’ve read.

I am NO nanny state guy as you are well aware, but average people are not pharmacists and will trust whatever the label says which they should be able to do.

But its not the labeling that is the problem. Its not people taking what the package says that are getting the liver damage. Its when they go above and beyond the recommended dosage, or combine multiple sources of the drug. There probably should be a better label about the how serious the damage is if you overdose, but limiting it because people don’t bother to read the label is not the solution. [/quote]

The problem with it as an OTC is that people can and will take it daily according to the bottle and can still cause themselves serious problems.

To me it’s not nanny state, it’s a serious drug that should possibly be a prescription. Advil, aspirin and aleeve can cause problems, but not to the extent of acetominophen. I don’t understand why people would take this with the others available.

27

[quote]pat wrote:
I just got a call from the FDA…
They said that they are not going to reduce dosages or remove from acetaminophen combination meds. All they are going to do is increase the warning.
She said they have been getting a lot of calls on this.

Victory for freedom! Vicodin and percocet for all!!![/quote]

This to me is acceptable. People need to know how serious this stuff is. As i said, i won’t take an otc with it, but I have taken prescriptions.

28

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Unaware wrote:
tom63 wrote:
IMO, acetominophen is one of the worst otcs. There is strong evidence that usage contributes to liver and kidney disease. 1000 dosages in your lifetime will double your chance of dying from liver or kidney failure.

There are other better drugs, such as aspirin and advil which are not as harsh. These work both on pain and swelling while acetominophen just works on pain pathways.

Personally, I will never take it.

Aspirin can cause potentially life threatening stomach bleeding. Take a few too many aspirin and you wont be in too good a shape. Ibuprofen can also to a lesser degree, and has been linked with serious cardiac problems when taken above recommended dosage.

If you drink enough distilled fucking water you can die. Just because people are stupid does not mean we need legislation to counter their stupidity. All this does is punishes the rest of the population who are not stupid. Did I mention yet today that I hate politicians and government?

V[/quote]

This is different than distilled water. If you take this every day due to chronic pain, yopu will get liver problems among other things.

29

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Unaware wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
OK, but IF it turns out that tens of thousands of people are being harmed through no fault of their own by labeling that features either dangerously high maximum dosages or inadequate interaction warnings then it’s tough to fault a move that simply corrects that which is at least one version of what is going on that I’ve read.

I am NO nanny state guy as you are well aware, but average people are not pharmacists and will trust whatever the label says which they should be able to do.

But its not the labeling that is the problem. Its not people taking what the package says that are getting the liver damage. Its when they go above and beyond the recommended dosage, or combine multiple sources of the drug. There probably should be a better label about the how serious the damage is if you overdose, but limiting it because people don’t bother to read the label is not the solution.

The problem with it as an OTC is that people can and will take it daily according to the bottle and can still cause themselves serious problems.

To me it’s not nanny state, it’s a serious drug that should possibly be a prescription. Advil, aspirin and aleeve can cause problems, but not to the extent of acetominophen. I don’t understand why people would take this with the others available.[/quote]

Because acetaminophen is the only potential COX-3 antagonist we know of. advil, aspirin, and aleve do not target COX-3. Also, aspirin inhibits the pro blood-clotting thromboxanes, and acetaminophen does not. Further, aspirin can potentially cause Reye’s Syndrome, which is potentially fatal, in children with viral infections that take it. I would call that a potential problem equal to–or greater than–acetaminphen’s typical side effects.

30

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Unaware wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
OK, but IF it turns out that tens of thousands of people are being harmed through no fault of their own by labeling that features either dangerously high maximum dosages or inadequate interaction warnings then it’s tough to fault a move that simply corrects that which is at least one version of what is going on that I’ve read.

I am NO nanny state guy as you are well aware, but average people are not pharmacists and will trust whatever the label says which they should be able to do.

But its not the labeling that is the problem. Its not people taking what the package says that are getting the liver damage. Its when they go above and beyond the recommended dosage, or combine multiple sources of the drug. There probably should be a better label about the how serious the damage is if you overdose, but limiting it because people don’t bother to read the label is not the solution.

The problem with it as an OTC is that people can and will take it daily according to the bottle and can still cause themselves serious problems.

To me it’s not nanny state, it’s a serious drug that should possibly be a prescription. Advil, aspirin and aleeve can cause problems, but not to the extent of acetominophen. I don’t understand why people would take this with the others available.

Because acetaminophen is the only potential COX-3 antagonist we know of. advil, aspirin, and aleve do not target COX-3. Also, aspirin inhibits the pro blood-clotting thromboxanes, and acetaminophen does not. Further, aspirin can potentially cause Reye’s Syndrome, which is potentially fatal, in children with viral infections that take it. I would call that a potential problem equal to–or greater than–acetaminphen’s typical side effects.
[/quote]

Well said!

Most of the public does not know the danger–and quirkiness–of acetaminophen when taken with alcohol. It is a very real problem, however ridiculous the FDA may be.

[i]Clin Gastroenterol Hepatol. 2009 Apr 9. [Epub ahead of print] Links
Co-medications That Modulate Liver Injury and Repair Influence Clinical Outcome of Acetaminophen-Associated Liver Injury.

Suzuki A, Yuen N, Walsh J, Papay J, Hunt CM, Diehl AM.
Gastroenterology, Duke University, Durham, North Carolina.
BACKGROUND & AIMS: Acetaminophen-induced liver injury is the most common cause of acute liver failure in the United States; it occurs inadvertently in approximately half of all cases. Concomitant use of other medications might impact susceptibility to acetaminophen hepatotoxicity. We investigated its association with administration of drugs that have been shown to modulate liver injury and/or repair in preclinical studies. METHODS: We analyzed data from 6386 cases of acetaminophen-associated liver injury that were defined in the FDA database of reported adverse events. Data reported in the severe adverse event categories of “died” or “life-threatening” (defined as “fatal” cases, n = 2512) were compared with those of “non-fatal” cases (n = 3874). Potential associations between fatality and concomitant use of 9 drug classes were assessed using multiple logistic regression analyses after adjusting for other variables. RESULTS: Among female subjects, concomitant use of statins, fibrates or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs was associated with decreased likelihood of fatality, whereas ethanol use was associated with increased likelihood. Among male subjects, concomitant use of statins was associated with decreased likelihood of fatality, whereas concomitant use of sympathetic stimulants or ethanol was associated with increased likelihood. Concomitant use of angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors or angiotensin receptor II antagonists was associated with decreased likelihood of fatality among younger subjects. CONCLUSIONS: Concomitant use of medications that have been shown in preclinical studies to modulate liver injury and/or repair influenced acetaminophen hepatotoxicity. Drugs that reduce injury or increase repair are protective, whereas those that exacerbate injury or reduce repair are detrimental.[/i]

31

more opiates, less tylenol