Sat. Fat

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

I just bought me some coconut oil for two reasons: I?ve been eating enough to where I?ve put on a little weight that?s non-muscle. But more than that, I want boost T and from what you guys have been telling me, saturated fat can boost T. I eat probably five helpings of chicken + two protein shakes and am concerned I?m not getting enough saturated fat.

From what I?ve read on T-Nation, you should have about 30% fat. So if I?m eating 3000 cal/day, then 900 should be from fat which is 100 g. I?ve also read on T-Nation that 30% of that should be saturated fat which would be 270 calories which is about 30g. Does 30g of saturated fat sound about right? Any advice would be appreciated.

And, before I say anything else, keep in mind that I want my bloodwork to stay reasonable and am 45. Thx for all the help in advance.

2

Saturated fat doesn’t do anything special in the body beyond providing energy, although I’m not really familiar with it’s effect on testosterone as opposed to fats in general. I believe the suggestion of 10% of total fats coming from saturated fats is really a guideline meant to ensure balance among saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats. 10% isn’t essential; it’s just hard to avoid. Beyond 10%, you might be crowding out more physiologically beneficial fats, but consuming below 10% isn’t necessarily detrimental, as long as your monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats are relatively balanced.

3

[quote]Angelbutt wrote:
Saturated fat doesn’t do anything special in the body beyond providing energy, although I’m not really familiar with it’s effect on testosterone as opposed to fats in general. I believe the suggestion of 10% of total fats coming from saturated fats is really a guideline meant to ensure balance among saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats. 10% isn’t essential; it’s just hard to avoid. Beyond 10%, you might be crowding out more physiologically beneficial fats, but consuming below 10% isn’t necessarily detrimental, as long as your monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats are relatively balanced.

[/quote]

Coconut Oil affects, or so I have read, your thyroid. I just took my first 2T at work and almost went comatose here. I think that’s the opposite of what it’s supposed to do!

4

Sat fats are GREAT and do Play key roles in the body. Largely and directly in the process of making hormones.

Now this doesnt mean they are any more important than the other fats,. PUFA’s and MUFA’s. It is best to aim to roughly get the same amount oif them all.

But a LOT of people who are serious about BBing Nutrition etc, sem to have this sat fat fear prob and should do waht they can to Up tghere intake of sats. Coconut is a great way.

Here. These should help,

Fat Roundtable I&II
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461947
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461093

Phill

5

I wanted to find out some more about saturated fat’s effect on testosterone, so I did a bit of research. The most detailed article I could find in my quick search was actually from another fitness-themed website.

Again, I’m not very familiar with how this works, but it seems like the scientists aren’t unsure as well. I’m not necessarily contesting the idea-just am keeping an open mind about it. I just thought I’d highlight some important points from what I read:

-“…most studies compared vegetarian-type diets to western-type diets. This presents several problems when trying to explain the hormonal responses from the dietary manipulations. The first is that other dietary factors were altered in addition to fat intake. These included fiber content and the presence of various phytonutrients like flavonoids, isothiocyanates, etc. The main point is that there are many factors that can determine the effects of dietary fat on T levels. Most studies did not even report the amounts of fatty acids in the subjects? diets, let alone the content of phytonutrients, so these factors were most likely not controlled for. Furthermore, differences in the length of the treatments (2 weeks vs. 10 weeks), lifestyles of the subjects (active vs. sedentary), and calorie loads (2800 vs. 4374) are additional examples of factors that can impact the results.”

-"Another important finding was that urinary excretion of T was much greater on the high-fat, low-fiber diet (6). Other studies have shown that on higher fat diets, urinary excretion of T is increased (10, 11) while vegetarian type diets may decrease the urinary excretion of T (9, 10, 11). This is an important point to consider in evaluating the level of T bioactivity in the body. If blood levels of T elevate and the excretion rate of T also elevates there may not be a net bioactive effect of T. However, if blood levels of T remain the same and T excretion decreases, that may signal a net bioactive effect of T in the body. While it is difficult to say if a higher fat or lower fat diet would be better for increasing the bioactivity of T, it does appear that higher fat and lower fiber-type diets are associated with greater excretion of T. "

-“The results do not support one another and only point to the fact that dietary fat plays a role in modifying T production, but that role is still unclear.”

-“Remember, it is the bioactive fraction of total T that is important. This fraction consists of fT and albumin-bound T. Fasting suppresses T production and small amounts of either PRO or CHO do not reverse the suppression. Diets with a PRO intake greater than the CHO intake lower total T levels, and may actually decrease the bioactivity of T in the body. Higher CHO diets (70% or more from CHOs) may increase T levels, but they also affect the metabolism of T as well. While the role of fat is not entirely clear, saturated fat and cholesterol are closely linked to higher levels of T and PUFAs have some modifying role.”

-"It would seem that CHO intake must exceed PRO intake by at least 40% to keep the bioactive fraction of T high. Fat intake should be at least 30%, saturated fat needs to be higher than PUFA, and fiber intake needs to be low. "

In essence, it seems like the correlation between testosterone and saturated fat isn’t quite as simple as most of us believe.

6

I know that Mike Mahler, being a vegan, has advocated Coconut oil as a source of calories and necessary fats. But for you, can you try modifying your diet some? Instead of 5 servings of chicken, why not try including some whole eggs, red meat, or pork? I’d mix up your whole food fat intake, and then consider maybe adding some oil to one of the shakes. However, if you’re saying that you already “put on a little weight that’s non-muscle”, why are we adding saturated fats? Why not clean up the rest of the nutrition?

Generally, I try not to get to involved in the 100 grams of whatever, 30% of something else. I find it overly complicated. But that’s cool, because a bunch of people do it successfully.

7

[quote]Angelbutt wrote:
I wanted to find out some more about saturated fat’s effect on testosterone, so I did a bit of research. The most detailed article I could find in my quick search was actually from another fitness-themed website.

Again, I’m not very familiar with how this works, but it seems like the scientists aren’t unsure as well. I’m not necessarily contesting the idea-just am keeping an open mind about it. I just thought I’d highlight some important points from what I read:

-“…most studies compared vegetarian-type diets to western-type diets. This presents several problems when trying to explain the hormonal responses from the dietary manipulations. The first is that other dietary factors were altered in addition to fat intake. These included fiber content and the presence of various phytonutrients like flavonoids, isothiocyanates, etc. The main point is that there are many factors that can determine the effects of dietary fat on T levels. Most studies did not even report the amounts of fatty acids in the subjects? diets, let alone the content of phytonutrients, so these factors were most likely not controlled for. Furthermore, differences in the length of the treatments (2 weeks vs. 10 weeks), lifestyles of the subjects (active vs. sedentary), and calorie loads (2800 vs. 4374) are additional examples of factors that can impact the results.”

-"Another important finding was that urinary excretion of T was much greater on the high-fat, low-fiber diet (6). Other studies have shown that on higher fat diets, urinary excretion of T is increased (10, 11) while vegetarian type diets may decrease the urinary excretion of T (9, 10, 11). This is an important point to consider in evaluating the level of T bioactivity in the body. If blood levels of T elevate and the excretion rate of T also elevates there may not be a net bioactive effect of T. However, if blood levels of T remain the same and T excretion decreases, that may signal a net bioactive effect of T in the body. While it is difficult to say if a higher fat or lower fat diet would be better for increasing the bioactivity of T, it does appear that higher fat and lower fiber-type diets are associated with greater excretion of T. "

-“The results do not support one another and only point to the fact that dietary fat plays a role in modifying T production, but that role is still unclear.”

-“Remember, it is the bioactive fraction of total T that is important. This fraction consists of fT and albumin-bound T. Fasting suppresses T production and small amounts of either PRO or CHO do not reverse the suppression. Diets with a PRO intake greater than the CHO intake lower total T levels, and may actually decrease the bioactivity of T in the body. Higher CHO diets (70% or more from CHOs) may increase T levels, but they also affect the metabolism of T as well. While the role of fat is not entirely clear, saturated fat and cholesterol are closely linked to higher levels of T and PUFAs have some modifying role.”

-"It would seem that CHO intake must exceed PRO intake by at least 40% to keep the bioactive fraction of T high. Fat intake should be at least 30%, saturated fat needs to be higher than PUFA, and fiber intake needs to be low. "

In essence, it seems like the correlation between testosterone and saturated fat isn’t quite as simple as most of us believe.

[/quote]

Thanks for the articles. But I need to know something. I understand PUFA and CHO - cholesterol I assume - but what is PRO??

8

[quote]Minotaur wrote:
I know that Mike Mahler, being a vegan, has advocated Coconut oil as a source of calories and necessary fats. But for you, can you try modifying your diet some? Instead of 5 servings of chicken, why not try including some whole eggs, red meat, or pork? I’d mix up your whole food fat intake, and then consider maybe adding some oil to one of the shakes. However, if you’re saying that you already “put on a little weight that’s non-muscle”, why are we adding saturated fats? Why not clean up the rest of the nutrition?

Generally, I try not to get to involved in the 100 grams of whatever, 30% of something else. I find it overly complicated. But that’s cool, because a bunch of people do it successfully.[/quote]

I’m what I think you’d call an ectomorph with a high metabolism. This is my guess: I’ve put on three fat pounds and four pounds of muscle. But I’m not worried about the fat yet. Believe me: I can melt that off in a week. I go catabolic really easily. I’m just looking for things to get more muscle on me and then I’ll melt off the fat pretty quickly.

So if saturated fat will melt fat - I’m actually not that worried about that. But if saturated fat is associated with T, which it is, then give me a bowl of lard. (Just kidding - I want to know the right amounts/proportions to consume…)