T Nation

SARMs While Tapering?


#1

Hey guys, I recently am 6 weeks into the Prisoner 22 test taper. My cycle was 100mg Test E + 400mg Tren E for 10 weeks. I had to go 2 weeks without Tren and Test at 9 weeks, so I guess you could say it was somewhat of a 12 week cycle. Oddly enough, my libido, bloat, and overall mood was the best it’s ever been during those 2 weeks… not the point, but just thought I’d put it out there as it might be relevant to my question.

I decided since Test E is self tapering, I’m going to try and let the ester self taper, instead of going 80 60 40 20. I figured that would just make shut down longer anyway. However, I really feel like putting on more size. I gained almost no fat during this bulk, so I’d like to do another bulk with the sarm LGD-4033.

Now I know LGD is test suppressive, and it seems like it would prolong shutdown, but it does not suppress LH and FSH. Therefore I’m wondering if my LH and FSH could recover while on a sarm? Maybe I could even recover faster, since my body sees test is low, and there’s nothing suppressing LH and FSH in my body? I don’t know, The HPTA system confuses the fuck out of me. Not saying I’m going to do this, but if my theory is correct, I think I am. Opinions guys?


#2

So your saying you’ve been cruising at 100mg for 6 weeks (stasis) and now your just going to get off instead of running the taper? And you would like to still make gains so you want to run a SARM? Am I reading this correctly? Just asking so I can better assist you


#3

Yes. Exactly. In my mind I think that the enanthate will self taper, so why run the taper and stay shut down longer? I don’t know if this has been tried before, guess I will be the first to try it? I have already purchased the LGD, it’s just sitting there waiting to be used. If I could use it now I would like to, instead of waiting for test to recover.


#4

Trust me your not the first to do it. I did the same thing my first taper except instead of tapering I ran a SERM. Recovered just fine. If it were me man. Just run the Taper with a SERM and you can pretty much hop back on cycle a week or so after your done with the taper/serm.

Just my opinion


#5

Didn’t even get a serm this cycle so I’m kinda fucked there haha. I had my last shot last week and yesterday + today I’ve felt really good. I actually went to the gym today and my lifts were up again… really odd. I think I’ll recover fine that way honestly, just debating whether I should start the sarm or not. Conflicted because I don’t know if my LH and FSH will recover while on the sarm.


#6

Not to sure about LH and FSH and SARMS I’ve never messed with them… But you should have without a doubt had planned on getting a SERM. If not I would complete the taper for safe measures. But again this is all my opinion. I know you came here specifically for advice on the SARM. I’m sorry I can’t give you advice there. All I can give you advice on is your PCT plan. Take it or leave it… And good luck


#7

Eh fuck it starting sarms next week pray my dick doesnt fall off
Edit: Also, the reason I’m not bothering with the taper is because 2-3 weeks of missing my shot I could tell I was recovering. So I know I’d be fine. I just don’t know if I’ll be fine with sarms. I can get pct if I must anyway, fuck it.


#8

this is a stupid idea.

you’re not recovered yet, and you’re taking a SARM you know to be suppressive to your HPTA?

why do you think this a good idea, at all?


#9

SARMs don’t shut down the HPTA. LH and FSH stay strong, lowered slightly if anything, while on SARMs. The part that fucks me is I don’t know if LH and FSH can recover while on SARMs. They wont lower it much, but I don’t know if it will come back up. SARMs have been used during PCT before to keep gains. Although Ligandrol isn’t the best SARM for this, it could still work with a SERM.


#10

SARMs shut down the HPTA you moron. any minor research would show that this is common knowledge…

and since SARMS shut down the HPTA, they absolutely will not allow you to recover in PCT.

^let me guess, you got that info from a website that sells “the triple SARM stack,” huh?


#11

the whole point of the stasis taper is to get off the drugs. Adding more drugs during this time is counterproductive.

Anyone with even the slightest amount of sense would be able to see this.


#12

No actually. When you google “LGD Bloods” triple sarm stack doesn’t show up. I don’t even know what that is truthfully.
I don’t know if this link will get removed or not, but here’s an image of bloodwork ON LGD.

Testosterone - 579
LH 1-.3
FSH 6.6

This doesn’t seem shut down to me. I understand these bloods are fantastic, especially compared to other bloods on LGD, but there has never been bloodwork showing 100% shut down with LGD.


#13

I completely agree. And I do see it. Hence why I made the thread asking if you guys thought it would be possible. Not if it would be a good idea, it’s a terrible idea, but if it could be possible. Just thought I have some experience with this stuff and can get PCT if it’s truly needed. Or even go back on test for a bit and redo the taper. Just an experiment.


#14

Outstanding. First class.


#15

You gotta be kidding man. There’s a clear difference between “shut down” and suppress. Hell yeah it suppresses the HPTA, but shut down is 0 production going on.


#16

I think you misunderstood my point. I was not commenting on the accuracy of your statement, as I am relatively ignorant on the subject. I was merely enjoying the irony of someone starting a thread and explicitly stating in the first post that “(X) confuses the fuck out of me” and a few days later in that very same thread making definitive statements about how (X) works. Terrific.


#17

The moral of this story is don’t use a SARM when you’re trying to recover.


#18

@byte, i am almost certain that bloodwork is fake, unless you personally know the person that posted it.

there is a clinical study conducted on LGD, and a 1 mg dose significantly suppressed testosterone and FSH in 3 weeks. most companies recommend dosing at 3-10 mg/day, as well, so it’s pretty logical to assume anything higher will result in more suppression.

same thing with ostarine. some people claim it’s minimally suppressive, but the dose used in the study was 3 mg, whereas most people recommend 25 mg.


#19

@byte, if you’re still confused about the HPTA/ PCT, i did a bit of a write up on that a while back here: Thoughts on Planning PCT


#20

also, i was never much of fan of P22’s test taper, either…

even 100 mg of exogeneous testosterone injected is going to suppress your own HPTA recovery… P22 went on the assumption that it would help you recover for some reason, but what it did would limit how MUCH you could recover.

most young guys prolly produce more testosterone then that a week, but not that much more. 200 mg of testosterone a week typically pushes most guys up to the high range of testosterone levels, and obviously the farther away you get from the norm, the fewer people fall into that category.

if you take a look at this study, you’ll see what various doses (25, 50, 125, 300 and 600 mg) of testosterone will do, compared to baseline after 16 weeks:

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.figures-only

(side note: in the above study, they also injected a GNRH antagonist, so they could measure the effects of the individual dose of testosterone. so one could assume that 25 mg would not result in that low of a level, as your own body would produce enough to make up the rest…)

IMO, the test taper is only worthwhile in a few instances (drug tested athletes, athletes that cannot use SERMs for some reason) and is only worth doing if you take HCG along with the taper…