T Nation

SARMS or Secretagogues Pre Half Marathon?

I have a race coming up this spring and i have a triathlon at the end of the summer.

I have recently been put on TRT. I am not looking to break any records but last spring I took a sarm combo that had MK in it and i recovered really quickly, slept great, and had an overall great experience …

Now with TRT in the picture, i wasnt sure how to proceed. Any insight appreciated. My goal is better recovery and sleep … and if that translates into better endurance I am all for it

Research winstrol


Winstrol or lower dose turinabol. If it’s good enough for Olympians it’s good enough for your goals.


ha. I wasnt thinking a strong anabolic was the answer… but winstrol, really? i thought that was for the 200M guys like ben johnson.

Not disagreeing with either of you… that response just surprises me.

You want something that adds strength, endurance, and not too much weight. Any kind of GH secretagogue is going to cause water retention. Extra water means extra weight, which is no bueno for distance running (or any running, I suppose). Tbol probably is the best choice, simply based on how well it worked for the East Germans for decades. But the Reds were pumping winstrol into their Olympians—in every sport—for decades. I imagine with the right training it works better than alternatives. Is this a competitive marathon or is this just for personal satisfaction?

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@iron_yuppie … appreciate the info

so as a noobie to these two anabolics, what - in your opinion - is the advantage of one over the other for my needs? I have never researched tbol or winstrol in depth.

i like the idea of low dose winstrol since i am new to trt and i see that winstrol does not aromatize

Cardarine. It is exactly what you’re looking for.

It can also be absolutely murder on the joints. Not exactly ideal for a half marathon

EDIT: I’d also be worried about getting some pretty nasty pumps in your calves if you’re using a lot of orals.

thats good info - i didnt think it would effect the calves like that

can you give me more info on caradine doses? I think i have purchased some GW a few months ago

whats a typical schedule? whats doses to start out at and do I “ramp up” towards the race date?


Pumps on orals can be downright debilitating. Muscle cramps, too; I once had a double asscheek cramp during sex that was so bad I fell off the bed.

I’m not an expert on cardarine by any stretch, mate, so you’d be better off just googling it. I do know that if you want better endurance then cardarine is the drug. The only other thing you could use would be EPO but for the love of god do not touch that.


i never know what to believe on google… so much BS out there and hidden agendas.

I prefer to read the boards and see what real people have used and what results / sides they have seen …

Ill leep searching. if anyone has any GW feedback please let me know

this is the best story I’ve heard all week (today is Monday), care to elaborate on said asscheek cramp (was the partner concerned or laughing).

In all fairness when I took what was supposedly anavar very briefly at 25mg/day (this was a while ago) I went on a hike, but my calves and ankles cramped up so badly I had to bail less than half way through.

this stuff is good to know … was unaware that anavar would cause cramping either

it’s a side effect of most C17AA compounds and DHT derived injectables when the dose is high enough… and maybe tren… and test… and eq… and probably all of them. Orals are most notorious for the aforementioned side effect though

so when i am doing my homework a random google search with winstrol and running leads me to ben johnson … test and endurance leads me to lance armstrong. i think LA was only using testosterone and EPO/blood doping for endurance… or am i wrong about that? or is there more?

So as with all drugs, the results are dose dependent. Winstrol can certainly be used for endurance, however the doses employed are much lower than what one would use for bodybuilding. In the world of athletics, a little comes a long way. I’m talking like 5mg of winny/day, it also isn’t unheard of for marathon runners to use low doses of oxymetholone (anadrol), very harsh drug, in order to increase RBC count (anadrol has been documented to have roughly 5x the erythropoietic stimulus compared to test). And while being light in marathon running is a nessecary, some retention of muscle mass is def a benefit (however there’s a very narrow window of benefit in this case) as there’s a very thin line as to how much muscle mass is too much and how much is yeetdoopily.

Extreme endurance training causes chronically elevated cortisol and thus secondary hypogonadism in many, you being on TRT is already a slight advantage. You can add an extra 50mg or so to you’re trt regiment (a little bit will go a long way in the case of endurance exercise)

Don’t fuck with EPO, it’s expensive and very dangerous, having a HCT in the mid 60%'s will put you at risk for a stroke lol.

You might get a decent idea of added endurance from a lower end dose of EQ. It raises RBC, so that’s sort of perfect for what you’re looking for. The trouble is that it can do a lot of other things too and not all of them will work for your goals.

I’ll add something non-illegal to the mix (I know, what fun is that?): 11-ketotestosterone. Excellent for cortisol control, which downstream could be useful for an endurance athlete. And it’s legal and relatively cheap, all things being equal.

As far as pumps go they can be harsh. Im currently on a 50/mg a day winstrol cycle. For me its the forearm and shoulder pumps that are harsh. As far as the joints i personally dont have any issues at 50mg/day i know people who have but theu said it didnt start for them until 6 weeks or so and then it was only heavy weights…the thing is yes winstrol can reek havoc kn your joints and cause pumps those are sides. But it doesn’t mean your gonna get them… Variables such as what dose your body othee compounds etc play a huge role in this. Problem is they get this bad wrap where if you take them your joints are gonna be fucked your liver is gonna fail and your pumps will have you in a wheelchair by 5pm…in reality as long as you keep oral cycles withing reasonable length range your liver will snap back. Pumps effect everyone differently and many other supplements such as taurine can help with pumps. And the joint thing seems to be hit or miss with people. On a low dose tho i doubt you will have any problems

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@unreal24278 … its funny you mention that. After looking at vaious doses and protocols i randomly thought “i wonder what 5mg would do” … and for that very reason - not a lot of muscle mass but to be leaner and have better endurance.

Hows that 5mg treating you?

What are your goals?

Any sides?

@zeek1414 … appreciate the info. i am more interested on kidney finction than liver. it seems everyone talks about liver health but the liver is very resilient. what effect does winny have on kidneys? low dose, not a long cycle. thx