Sarah Palin's Speech

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]rainjack wrote:
What ever bounce Obama and Biden received last week will be gone tomorrow.

I have been listening to these conventions for 24 years. Palin’s speech was the best I have ever heard.

The way she looked the media in the eye and basically said, “fuck off” was probably one of the greatest moments I have ever witnessed in a speech.

The funny part is, the CNN. MSNBC talking heads were incredulous. They are going to play right into her hands.

Simply masterful.
[/quote]

Absolutely and to put it in hockey terms she left her feet and boarded BO from behind face first with clear intent to injure.

I actually winced a couple times.

She did seem entirely unimpressed by any of the attacks and went on offense with extreme prejudice.

22

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
I thought that her speech was very unprofessional, and relied too heavily on inductive reasoning. I agreed with a couple of things that she said, but the overwhelmingly majority of it was irrelevant gibberish.

It was an excellent speech from a ‘my team is better than your team’ standpoint. But actual content about the hows and whys(from a deductive standpoint) was lacking for the majority of the time.

All in all, this( and Obama’s speech) is meaningless until debates. [/quote]

Clearly this is your first convention and if not, find something else to do with your time.

Here’s a clue. Every nominee at every convention has objectives that must be fulfilled for the speech to be considered successful and effective. She surpassed those by about a Denali mile.

If you want a sure fire path to poverty, pursue a career in political strategy.

23

Two things:

To Malevolent’s point:

Since the first televised debate between Nixon and Kennedy, the debates have hardly EVER been about issues and substance; but of intangibles like sound bites (‘You are no John Kennedy’…) and ‘feel’.

Palin (barring a major gaff) wins here.

Obama vs. McCain?

To win, McCain will definitely have to win by experience, knowledge and the issues. (Which he can).

Reading a few BLOGS around the net makes me realize that the DEMS will make a VERY bad miscalculation if they think because Obama ‘dealt’ with Hillary, he can ‘deal’ with Palin.

Apples and Oranges.

Attacking Hillary and attacking Palin will take MUCH different strategies that Obama and Biden will have to think VERY carefully about.

One is viewed as an ‘Liberal Ice Queen’ and one ‘a Hockey Mom’, who is one of us, with 5 kids, one of whom is a special needs child.

Mufasa

24

For me, the level of bitching that the Right and the Left do on a regular basis, as to the nature of the shitty level of american politics makes me say, we fucking deserve it if this is what we define as being a good speech. We have set our standards so incredibly low, and we get pissed off when we bear the brunt of the shoddy filth that comes as a result of that.

We treat politics like a WWE smackdown, and then complain when being able to lift a man over your head is not in fact a functional skill to have in the white house.

You’re telling me to get with the program, this is the way these things are, accomplishing specific objectives…etc. I say that sensationalistic crap has no place in today’s politics, and these pep rallies are destructive and pointless. (and yes, I think this of the DNC as well, democrats just generally suck at being assholes, so I don’t really notice it so much)

25

Oh…

About the Daughter’s boyfriend being present…

He looked like ‘WTF???’…and that Palin had that M-16 with the M203 Grenade Launcher pointed at his head.

I think Palin dealt with this issue by saying that she deals with the same problems as any other family.

And moved on.

Mufasa

26

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Two things:

To Malevolent’s point:

Since the first televised debate between Nixon and Kennedy, the debates have hardly EVER been about issues and substance; but of intangibles like sound bites (‘You are no John Kennedy’…) and ‘feel’. [/quote]

And I think we are reaping what we sowed with today’s pathetic crop of candidates.

27

“this is a man who can give an entire speech about the wars America is fighting and never use the word ‘victory’ except when he’s talking about his own campaign”.

Bingo! For me Palin sums Obama up perfectly.

28

Malevolence:

I hear what you are saying.

I guess we all go into that Booth in November, pull the lever, and just HOPE that we haven’t been duped.

Mufasa

29

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
For me, the level of bitching that the Right and the Left do on a regular basis, as to the nature of the shitty level of american politics makes me say, we fucking deserve it if this is what we define as being a good speech. We have set our standards so incredibly low, and we get pissed off when we bear the brunt of the shoddy filth that comes as a result of that.

We treat politics like a WWE smackdown, and then complain when being able to lift a man over your head is not in fact a functional skill to have in the white house.

You’re telling me to get with the program, this is the way these things are, accomplishing specific objectives…etc. I say that sensationalistic crap has no place in today’s politics, and these pep rallies are destructive and pointless. (and yes, I think this of the DNC as well, democrats just generally suck at being assholes, so I don’t really notice it so much)

[/quote]

Please tell me what you wanted to hear from her. You want numbers? Did you want her to lay out the policies of a McCain administration? What is it?

I think you expect something from these conventions that they are not designed to produce. At least they haven’t in a couple of centuries. GO look back at some of the previous conventions. This is tame compared to the turn of the 18th century. Thos guys were fucking brutal.

McCain will most likely lay out his positions in a clear and coherent fashion tomorrow night.

I think you think that playing nice is the norm. It is not. Not when you are fighting for the highest office in the land. The gloves come off, and the players play as dirty as they can get away with.

30

Anyone have a video link?

31

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Malevolence:

I hear what you are saying.

I guess we all go into that Booth in November, pull the lever, and just HOPE that we haven’t been duped.

Mufasa[/quote]

Yeah, and then bitch about it for the next 4 years.

32

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
For me, the level of bitching that the Right and the Left do on a regular basis, as to the nature of the shitty level of american politics makes me say, we fucking deserve it if this is what we define as being a good speech. We have set our standards so incredibly low, and we get pissed off when we bear the brunt of the shoddy filth that comes as a result of that.

We treat politics like a WWE smackdown, and then complain when being able to lift a man over your head is not in fact a functional skill to have in the white house.

You’re telling me to get with the program, this is the way these things are, accomplishing specific objectives…etc. I say that sensationalistic crap has no place in today’s politics, and these pep rallies are destructive and pointless. (and yes, I think this of the DNC as well, democrats just generally suck at being assholes, so I don’t really notice it so much)

Please tell me what you wanted to hear from her. You want numbers? Did you want her to lay out the policies of a McCain administration? What is it?

I think you expect something from these conventions that they are not designed to produce. At least they haven’t in a couple of centuries. GO look back at some of the previous conventions. This is tame compared to the turn of the 18th century. Thos guys were fucking brutal.

McCain will most likely lay out his positions in a clear and coherent fashion tomorrow night.

I think you think that playing nice is the norm. It is not. Not when you are fighting for the highest office in the land. The gloves come off, and the players play as dirty as they can get away with.

[/quote]

I get that Politics have always been brutal(And would add that I think Democrats have generally been a bunch of pathetic little bitches in the face of aggression). But I argue that was a result of the poor distribution of information. When candidates could clearly strong-arm their way into a vote through disingenuous arguments and inductive fluff talk. They did. There was no consequence, people didn’t know any better, people didn’t care to find out(or were literally unable to)

But today, any one of us has the ability to perform extensive, thorough, complete and honest research on every candidates every word. We have no excuse for acting like a bunch of buffoons. We have no excuse for choosing to elect these santorum stain mouth-breathers. We have the ability to make an educated choice, not based on inductive reasoning, not based on anecdotes, not based on personal experience or hearsay, but we willingly plug our ears and say 'Obama is a terrorist, and McCain is a senile old shit". We cheer them on when they ‘score political points’ we get emotional and defensive, we shut down all logic, critical thinking and go with whatever ‘feels’ right, and we sling insult after insult to whoever doesn’t agree.

I think it is pretty pathetic to place so much value on these assholes in any capacity. They are not going to solve any of your problems or mine. They don’t care to, and as long as we continue to support this sensationalist, smack-down, style over substance BS, we will continue to receive worthless candidates.

33

You will NEVER find out how ‘good’ or ‘bad’ a person will be as President by either research and study. Simply Because someone states that this or that is their position does NOT mean that they will, or can, do those things once in office.

Also, some of our greatest Presidents looked horrible ‘on paper’.

What defined them was history and how they responded to the challenges that faced them as President. The BEST we can to do is vote for someone whom we personally feel can respond to those challenges in ways that are important to us and the Country.

(But hey…I tend to be an idealist who has read too much about Lincoln, FDR and Harry Truman!)

Mufasa

34

But is that an excuse for this absurd indulgence in making politics into a spectator sport? Obviously, at some point, logic has to give way to intuition, without it you would never make any choices. But, the pandering to lowest common denominator punch lines, spectacle and “gloves off” nonsense, is just as bad, because it leads to making a choice for all of the wrong reasons.

Bypassing your responsibility to educate yourself and then bitching about it when you ended up with something that was less than you believed.

35

I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, that’s the way the game is played because human nature and “mob mentality” and the rules of rhetoric haven’t changed since Brutus v. Antony.

And the majority of the people haven’t wanted to be educated about anything serious since ancient Greece.

I’m somewhat of a cynic, can you tell? :slight_smile:

36

Again, I don’t disagree with you, Malevolence. In NO WAY am I a fan of how we pick our leaders.

However, I am all ears if you can show me how to:

  1. ‘Logically’ pick a candidate for President without using a bucket load of intuition AND

  2. Can show me how that ‘logical’ choice will end up being a better choice than the ‘illogical’ one.

The latter is almost an impossibility because history and circumstances determine that.

Mufasa

37

Well, for me it is not a question of strictly thinking logically. As much as it is adjusting the threshold of when you turn off your brain and decide that because it feels good it is good.

I think that we all need to strive to push that threshold back a little bit. We have the capability to do better for ourselves and for others, by taking a little bit of time to look at a situation without the overriding bias of inductive reasoning, and we choose not to. This day and age, especially, more so than any other time in human history, we have all the resources in the world to learn and communicate with people, to bridge gaps in understanding and to not need to rely on cheap, sensationalist muck to get by.

So,

  1. By using a cupful, not a bucketload.

  2. I don’t think this can be done. Better is a function of specific contexts. But, what we can do, as a nation, is work to better understand where we are trying to go. Try and contextualize the ideas that we have and pit them against the actions we’ve been taking. Mindless propaganda from the left and the right is a terrible way of going about doing this though.

I harbor no delusions that there could ever be an ‘answer’ to the fundamental divide between left and right politics. It is as much a mental/philosophical divide as it is a pragmatic one. I think that is a natural consequence though, and if one or the other were to achieve hegemony over a situation, it would invariably turn out badly, whether through lack of action, or action driven by misguided motivation. But I have a hard time seeing how all of this squabbling is doing anything.

38

Do you know what’s funny?

Practically everyone agrees with the universal observation that, “the masses are dumb.” Yet, hardly anyone will endorse a traditional, autocratic form of government.

Well, fuck it, I’ll do it! Along with conservative scholars William Lind and Hans-Hermann Hoppe:

The “masses have been dumb” for thousands of years. It’s not a new concept.

Western Democracy is, however.

The time is fast approaching when foolish concepts will be cleansed from the earth. We’re due for a refresh “any day now”.

“Sooner will a camel pass through a needle’s eye than a great man be ‘discovered’ by an election.”

-Adolf Hitler

39

That sure was a change from the atrocious speakers the Republican party produced recently. But I doubt the VP choice affects the election much (despite chances of McCain croaking in the White House being high). From a neutral perspective, it is evident that Obama has a devoted and adulating base. McCain isn’t anywhere close. More people will vote against Obama than those that will vote for McCain. The folks that Palin is rallying up were going to pinch their nose and vote against Obama anyway.

That’s not to say picking Palin wasn’t a genius political move by the McCain campaign.

40

If there’s one thing that baffles me about American politics it’s how being average is seen as some kind of badge of honour. That and the fact that someone who thinks the Earth is less than 6000 years old is taken remotely seriously.