T Nation

Samul's Training and Nutrition Log


#344

I don’t think I’ve ever done refeeds that often. I mean. I’ve done two refeeds in total and one time I just went on a binger. But, I am bad at keeping in deep deficits for several weeks at a time. I usually end up running cuts that aren’t aggressive enough or I need to come up for air every once in a while with like a maintenance week.

There’s a trade-off though. As you document in your log, you don’t really end up feeling too good when dieting that hard and while indeed there is a reward — the Reward — there’s also a price to pay. My job requires my mental faculties to be on-fucking-point, otherwise I’m not really pulling my weight, and doing a good job matters a lot to me.


#345

I can confirm that I felt like shit during most of the cut.

However, I was able to overcome it, which taught me I am stronger than I thought.
Over the course of the eight weeks, I had two refeeds only, and a couple of instances where I couldn’t control myself and cheated (but I made up for it).

Now, if I had to do this again, I would never take as extreme an approach. We did it this way both because Carter seemingly likes to be super strict and wanted to see if I could manage to do that too, and because working with a coach also means you need to get things done as quickly as possible to avoid wasting money.

If I had to do it again without a coach, by myself, I’d change a couple of things. Mainly, I wouldn’t be so strict in terms of food choices. Again, for eight weeks straight, I ate the same exact things every day. With the exception of these two refeeds, I didn’t have a single meal in two months that wasn’t what Paul had put in the meal plan.

Second, it’d take a bit longer, take my time and like you said I’d include a week of maintenance every roughly six weeks. That, along with a refeed roughly every 20 days and one free meal each week (but it’d have to fit the macros). If you read Lyle McDonald’s work, you’ll find that some of the things I just mentioned have a very solid physiological reason to be applied in a diet.


#346

Haha, I don’t really expect anything else! :smiley: An aggressive cut will take the joy out of life, no doubt.

Good on you! An invaluable lesson that. There are so many things worth trying just for these kinds of insight alone. For instance, going without food for 24 hours, just to show oneself – and one’s psyche – that it’s not all that dramatic after all!

No doubt.

I get that. I usually have the same exact things on weekdays and vary it up on the weekends, mostly because I love cooking as an activity and to make up for any nutritional gaps.

Sounds like a solid strategy. I haven’t commited to this yet, but I’m kind of keen on trying 2-weeks on, 1-weeks off with regards to dieting. Borrowing from this, https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/the-matador-intermittent-diet but wanting to get results a little bit faster. I’d run my “on” weeks blitz style (see thibarmy), super mean and aggressive, and then come back up for air for a week. I’d repeat that until I’m as lean as I want to be and then strive for lean gains from there. I have some other ideas that I’m floating though, hence the non-commit.

Anything in particular?


#347

Sounds horrible


#348

Try it


#349

colonoscopy prep forces you to not eat for >36 hrs, was dreading it worse than the procedure but actually wasn’t as bad as I thought. Still don’t think I would ever try any prolonged fasting type diets, not for me. I


#350

I tried not eating for a day a couple of years ago (yes, I have been one of those kind of skinny guys that have ben lifting for six months yet want to try intermittent fasting…) and it wasn’t terrible, but I have changed since and it’d be harder for me now. I just have a huge appetite now.

Yeah I have read about this approach and most likely I’ll try it sometime in the future.

Absolutely! I’ve read most of McDonald’s posts and almost all of his books. If you’re not looking for a book, simply start with his website. Can’t link it, but it’s bodyrecomposition dot com. Tons of articles and some of them contain excerpts from his books.

As far as books, the one in which he talks in depth about diet breaks, refeeds, and free meals is called a guide to flexible dieting.

In two of his other books, the ultimate diet 2.0 and rapid fat loss handbook, he presents you with two crazy fat loss diets. Even if you don’t do the diet, he still goes into detail about fat loss mechanisms and the inner workings of metabolism. There’s a ton to learn from those books too and he gives more info specifically about refeeds and free meals.

Lastly, although not strictly related to dieting, you should also pick up his protein book. It’s a masterpiece. From amount recommendations to pros and cons of different sources and much more–all you need to know about protein. He’s a super smart guy IMO.


#351

Do you think I’d be better off getting forever?

Btw, I have looked at the content table of the second edition on Jim’s website and it’s the same as the first version. What’s changed?


#352

I don’t have Forever. I’ve heard plenty of people say good things, and that there are enough templates to run 5/3/1 for the rest of your life. But it’s 100 bucks. That’s up to you if you wanna spend that. I don’t think I’ll ever buy it, personally, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t.


#353

100 bucks? I must be high because I checked like twenty minutes ago and it was like 40 bucks on Jim’s website.

What about the differences between first and second edition of the standard book? Do you have both? What are the differences?


#354

Shit, it was 100 bucks when it came out and I looked at getting it. It’s 40 now, like you said - sounds like a great deal to me. I don’t know the differences between 1st and 2nd edition. Honestly we’re coming to the end of my 5/3/1 knowledge and I don’t wanna steer you wrong. I’m just a fan of the original templates and didn’t think they were too advanced for you to run. @T3hPwnisher is a huge 5/3/1 advocate, perhaps he can help you here.


#355

Honestly, it being 40 bucks changes a lot. I might even get it now.


#356

As far as I know, Forever has always been $40. I pre-ordered it before it was released and got it at 15% off of it’s original price of $40, which was pretty awesome.

Definitely worth it. A lot to get out of it.


#357

I think I’m putting it in my cart.

I decided that I will give myself a couple of presents for Christmas as I’ve recently earned some money (my first thousand € no less!) and I wanted to buy a couple of gym books.

On top of Jim’s book(s) I’ll also be getting thibarmy’s neurotype 2b nutrition template. So if you have a couple more suggestions of great books to have, you’re welcome. But they have to be ebooks, because I’m not paying shipping US to Italy lol


#358

By chance do you happen to have both the first and second version of the basic book? What’s different between the old and new version?

I’m considering getting the second edition and was wondering what the differences are.


#359

I own both. Don’t have them on me at the moment. The second edition is more fleshed out than the first and had a longer Q&A, but doesn’t bring anything revolutionary to the table compared to Beyond and Forever. Nothing wrong with grabbing all 3, but you’d be fine to just get Beyond and Forever.


#360

Understood. Well considering I’m going to be doing BBB at first, I should be good with whatever book.


#361

@flipcollar

Just tagging you because there have been quite some posts since the last one I made addressing you so it may have slipped through.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts about what I talked about here:


#362

lol yea i read your post. I just didn’t really have anything to add to it. I don’t think you really asked any questions. But I do like that you’re going to be starting 5/3/1.

BBB is the only version I’ve done. I like the flexibility of it. I’ve done it where you do the same exercise for 5x10 after the 5/3/1 sets, and I’ve done a different lift. Both variations work. My lifting days are still generally patterned around that concept.

An overhead pressing day generally looks like this for me: I’ll work up to a few heavy sets on whatever I’m pressing (log, bar, axle, whatever), and then I’ll drop to do volume work. Sometimes with the same implement, sometimes something else. Sometimes still OHP, sometimes a bench variation. But the basic premise is the same. Start with the heavy work on a main movement, then do some volume with a secondary, but still compound, movement. After that, I’ll do my accessory work, which can include my rows, pull ups, curls, extensions, face pulls, etc. And I do all of those for volume as well, generally 3 sets of anywhere from 8-20.

It’s a loose interpretation of 5/3/1 obviously, and the structure doesn’t exactly lend itself to very easy ways to gauge success, but it works for me.


#363

Lol sorry then, thought it’d slipped through.

I think the biggest part to it is that I’ve never stuck to a single program for even close to that long. And since I’m never satisfied with my progress and end up spinning my wheels, I believe having an objective way of assessing progress will do me good.

I bet if I focus all my energies onto one single thing, that is increasing my strength on the four lifts, I’ll be pleased where I am in a year from now.

Hopefully…