Sample Dosing and Lab Results

[readalot]

@readalot

Taking a look at the data you did share (TT is in ng/dL and fT is in pg/mL) and performing a regression of TT, fT and SHBG, there’s a very nice correlation between fT and TT+SHBG. Leverage plots above show that (as has been shown previously), for a given TT… free T is inversely proportional to SHBG. Hence a model similar to this or Vermeulen online calculator will allow one to typically predict fT within 10-20% if they know their TT and SHBG

This simple model predicts fT to within 5 ng/dL on average.

@dbossa, dead (as in potentially dead) serious questions:

Last week you accused me of doing a cycle (you knew, you assumed?) when I ran into problems earlier this year…

@dbossa

Therefore, YOU should be the one to concede here as your topic is ‘What is TRT and What is NOT TRT’ where you provided your argument of how ‘supra levels’ can cause harm.

A) You were doing a cycle
B) You had a pre-existing condition (known or unknown)

I went to the trouble to (as accurately as I humanly could, see details in linked post below) estimate what my TT and fT levels were during the unfortunate issue (TT between 1700 and 2600 ng/dL with fT between 30-50 ng/dL). I discontinued low dose, therapeutic AAS dosing 4 weeks before prior to the incident:

What is TRT and What is NOT TRT

For the reader, here was my TT profile leading up to my AFIB incident: [image] I was in the second week up upping my dose from 120 mg/week of TC to 325 mg/week (injection 2x per week). Peak at week 2 was about 2600 and trough about 1770 ng/dL. SHBG is 55 nmol/L. Here’s the calculated range of free T: [image] [image] In reality, equilibrium dialysis free T typically 20% lower than Vermeulen calculation above. So I estimate I was somewhere between 30 and 50 ng/dL on my free T in week 2. …

So now look at the data @highpull shared (you can check out the summary graphs I made above or go to the original post I did and zoom in). Some questions pop into my head:

1. Which one of these guys are on a cycle?
2. How do you determine this?
3. For guys with existing conditions (maybe they know/maybe they don’t), I infer from your comments on my nasty experience that there is potentially an upper limit on how high they should take their TT/fT? Do I understand that correctly? What is that limit? Could you consult your providers or perhaps you have an opinion? Why would guys with heart issues need to stay below a certain TT/fT level?
4. Based on the answer to question 3, should care be used on how high to initially start or continue a man on TRT/TOT since there may be issues (heart) that are unknown or they may be older? Should guys with these issues not exceed physiologic range?

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I also really appreciate any insight your team has on this. @highpull, I’d value your opinion on this as well.

@dbossa: Maybe there’s a silver lining from what I thought was some real unfairness/hypocrisy/BS in your back and forth with me on my AFIB incident. Perhaps this discussion could help some men who use exogenous T.

I appreciate you guys’ time on this.